[ramsman34]

I don't get the, what i will call "over-focus" on comeback wins. There are a lot of variables to them. Sure, statistically some QBs are better than others. And yes, I want OUR QB to possess whatever innate abilities and intangibles to allow us to come from behind and win. . Goff has those traits regardless of how many opportunities he has had. You can't discount the other side of the ball. It is not Goff's fault the D gave up 10 points and allowed no time to mount a comeback. Had the D held serve on 3rd and 7, we are probably talking about an ENTIRELY different narrative - one where we are debating just how good Goff is at the come from behind victory.

Bottom line is this: I trust that Goff can win in ANY way necessary. THAT is the only quality I really care about. But that's just me.

Some of this paralysis by analysis is just too much for me.

[R4L]

To me, overall wins are what count. As Aeneas pointed out, Keenum is the leader this season and everyone knows he's not a top guy.

A lot of come back wins only tells me that a team is behind quite often. The Rams under McVay have had quite a few blowouts so Goff doesn't get as many chances imo.

[ramsman34]

To me, overall wins are what count. As Aeneas pointed out, Keenum is the leader this season and everyone knows he's not a top guy.

A lot of come back wins only tells me that a team is behind quite often. The Rams under McVay have had quite a few blowouts so Goff doesn't get as many chances imo.

Exactly. But, do you think he CAN come from behind?

I Do.

The ability to do so is more important than the opportunities.

[/zn/]

I don't get the, what i will call "over-focus" on comeback wins. There are a lot of variables to them. Sure, statistically some QBs are better than others. And yes, I want OUR QB to possess whatever innate abilities and intangibles to allow us to come from behind and win. . Goff has those traits regardless of how many opportunities he has had. You can't discount the other side of the ball. It is not Goff's fault the D gave up 10 points and allowed no time to mount a comeback. Had the D held serve on 3rd and 7, we are probably talking about an ENTIRELY different narrative - one where we are debating just how good Goff is at the come from behind victory.

Bottom line is this: I trust that Goff can win in ANY way necessary. THAT is the only quality I really care about. But that's just me.

Some of this paralysis by analysis is just too much for me.

No not all qbs who can win in a lot of different ways are as good when the game is on the line at the end, with fewer options and with time as a factor. In fact you might be surprised by the list of qbs whose teams win no more than 33% of the time in that situation.

I think Goff can be better than the "33% and below" level which means more wins in tough games. I'm all for that. Oh and no one said it was the single most important or most significant trait though a lot of the objectors act as if someone did say that. Cause...straw men. Meanwhile a lot of us are interested in that trait, as the thread attests.

Besides, the only time I see people complaining about the "comeback" thing is when the Rams lose in one of those situations. When they win one of those, no one objects to mentioning it. But since 50% is a good record when it comes to that, there will be losses.

[R4L]

Exactly. But, do you think he CAN come from behind?

I Do.

The ability to do so is more important than the opportunities.

I do too. Good points.

[Elvis]

BTW was googling that Rams/Lions game from '99 and found this:

https://www.nytimes.com/1999/11/08/spor ... r-run.html

PRO FOOTBALL; The Lions Solve the Rams and Continue Their Run
By MIKE FREEMANNOV. 8, 1999

The St. Louis Rams have amazed, even terrified, the National Football League with their powerful and versatile offense. But fear only lasts so long. It takes just a short time for the rest of the league, full of innovative men, to put a team like the Rams under a microscope and pick it apart, like a scientist breaking down a virus.

That detailed exam of the Rams' offense has led to a sharp decline in production. St. Louis scored a healthy 143 first-half points in its first six games but only 12 first-half points in its last two. And in suburban Detroit today, where the big story continues to be ''Barry Who?'', the Rams again looked mortal.

And in a wild, thrilling 31-27 victory by Detroit, it was the Lions' offense that showed it could be the best in the game. In a year of improbable stories, the Lions are among the most surprising, leaping to the top of the National Football Conference without all-world runner Barry Sanders. With a 6-2 record, the Lions are tied with the Rams for the conference's best record.

''We proved today that there is no longer a question, 'Are these guys for real?''' said Lions safety Ron Rice. ''We're for real. Believe it.''

It is hard not to believe, especially after watching what will surely end up being one of the most exciting fourth quarters of the season. After both teams combined for only 2 points in the opening period -- Detroit running back Greg Hill was tackled for a safety by linebacker London Fletcher -- the game ended in a flurry of activity. That included a pass for 57 yards on fourth-and-26 with barely one minute to play.

It seemed as if there was no way the Rams would endure a two-game losing streak, especially after St. Louis took a 27-24 lead with just under three minutes remaining. The team scored because of a smart call by offensive coordinator Mike Martz. With the ball on the Detroit 2, Ram center Ryan Tucker reported as an eligible receiver, and the Lions ignored him, as most teams do in that situation. But after Tucker snapped the ball, and quarterback Kurt Warner faked a handoff to Marshall Faulk, the 305-pound lineman ran a lumbering pass pattern. Warner, who threw for 305 yards, four touchdowns and three interceptions, lobbed Tucker the ball. No Detroit player was within 5 yards. Warner passed to Isaac Bruce for the 2-point conversion.

There were 2 minutes 42 seconds remaining, and the situation was dire for Detroit. Quarterback Charlie Batch was on the sideline after banging his thumb on a defender's helmet. His backup, Gus Frerotte, was at the helm, and he is most famous for injuring his neck several years ago after banging his head in celebration on a padded concrete wall while with the Washington Redskins.

''I'm not going to sit here and say I was excited about our chances at that point,'' said Detroit defensive lineman James Jones. ''But we never doubted ourselves as a team.''

On the winning drive, the Lions went 77 yards in 10 plays, the biggest of which was a 57-yard toss to Germane Crowell in front of Rams cornerback Dexter McCleon on fourth-and-28 at the Lions 21.

The drive, which started at the Lion 23, began with a false start penalty then, two plays later, Frerotte was sacked for a 14-yard loss by end Kevin Carter. Two plays after that, the quarterback was again dropped for negative yardage, this time for eight yards by tackle D'Marco Farr. That left a fourth down and 26 at the Detroit 21-yard line with 1:17 left.

Since wide receiver Germane Crowell (8 catches for 163 yards) had burned Rams cornerback Dexter McCleon all afternoon, the Lions again went to that well, figuring there was plenty to drink. Crowell bolted by McCleon for a 57-yard reception that put the Lions at the St. Louis 22 with one minute left.

''I wasn't surprised I got behind him,'' Crowell said of McCleon. ''I was running past him all day.''

Said Lions Coach Bobby Ross: ''I'm not going to sit here and sound intelligent like we did this and that on that play. We just laid the ball up.''

On third down, McCleon, who will want to incinerate this particular set of game films, was called for pass interference on Crowell. That put the ball at the Ram 12. Then Frerotte threw a wonderfully timed fade pass to Johnnie Morton for the winning score.

Detroit helped itself by studying game film of last week's Tennessee victory over St. Louis, then stole a page from the Titans' defensive blueprint. Last week, the Titans beat the Rams by stacking the line of scrimmage to stop Faulk and constantly blitzed Warner. Yesterday, Faulk had only 15 yards rushing on 11 attempts and Warner was under pressure all afternoon, sacked 4 times.

Meanwhile, Ron Rice is right, it is time to start taking the Lions seriously. In this strange N.F.L. season, who says they cannot have Super Bowl dreams?

[ramsman34]

No not all qbs who can win in a lot of different ways are as good when the game is on the line at the end, with fewer options and with time as a factor. In fact you might be surprised by the list of qbs whose teams win no more than 33% of the time in that situation.

I think Goff can be better than the "33% and below" level which means more wins in tough games. I'm all for that. Oh and no one said it was the single most important or most significant trait though a lot of the objectors act as if someone did say that. Cause...straw men. Meanwhile a lot of us are interested in that trait, as the thread attests.

Besides, the only time I see people complaining about the "comeback" thing is when the Rams lose in one of those situations. When they win one of those, no one objects to mentioning it. But since 50% is a good record when it comes to that, there will be losses.

ZN, I get it. But, come from behind wins are based on so much more than just the QB. If Goff, or any QB, consistently had the "last touch of the ball" opportunity and then repeatedly shit down their leg...that would be a compelling "stat". Just isn't the case usually. Case in point: this last game. Goff and the RAMS offense went 3 and out when down by 3. Was that all on Goff? I don't think so. Did he make some poor throws? Sure. Saint's D just out executed. Perhaps someone else on the Rams made a critical mistake. we don't know. What we DO know is that down 14-35, Goff and THE ENTIRE TEAM/STAFF had what it took to tie the game. Furthermore, had the D held on 3rd and 7, Goff et al get another shot. Alas, we will never know what could have been.

So that tells me, small sample size be damned, that they have the ability to do it.

I would rather they win in other ways..but that's just me. I have the faith in their collective ability to come from behind and win - whether the stats support or don't.

[ramsman34]

BTW was googling that Rams/Lions game from '99 and found this:

https://www.nytimes.com/1999/11/08/spor ... r-run.html

PRO FOOTBALL; The Lions Solve the Rams and Continue Their Run
By MIKE FREEMANNOV. 8, 1999

The St. Louis Rams have amazed, even terrified, the National Football League with their powerful and versatile offense. But fear only lasts so long. It takes just a short time for the rest of the league, full of innovative men, to put a team like the Rams under a microscope and pick it apart, like a scientist breaking down a virus.

That detailed exam of the Rams' offense has led to a sharp decline in production. St. Louis scored a healthy 143 first-half points in its first six games but only 12 first-half points in its last two. And in suburban Detroit today, where the big story continues to be ''Barry Who?'', the Rams again looked mortal.

And in a wild, thrilling 31-27 victory by Detroit, it was the Lions' offense that showed it could be the best in the game. In a year of improbable stories, the Lions are among the most surprising, leaping to the top of the National Football Conference without all-world runner Barry Sanders. With a 6-2 record, the Lions are tied with the Rams for the conference's best record.

''We proved today that there is no longer a question, 'Are these guys for real?''' said Lions safety Ron Rice. ''We're for real. Believe it.''

It is hard not to believe, especially after watching what will surely end up being one of the most exciting fourth quarters of the season. After both teams combined for only 2 points in the opening period -- Detroit running back Greg Hill was tackled for a safety by linebacker London Fletcher -- the game ended in a flurry of activity. That included a pass for 57 yards on fourth-and-26 with barely one minute to play.

It seemed as if there was no way the Rams would endure a two-game losing streak, especially after St. Louis took a 27-24 lead with just under three minutes remaining. The team scored because of a smart call by offensive coordinator Mike Martz. With the ball on the Detroit 2, Ram center Ryan Tucker reported as an eligible receiver, and the Lions ignored him, as most teams do in that situation. But after Tucker snapped the ball, and quarterback Kurt Warner faked a handoff to Marshall Faulk, the 305-pound lineman ran a lumbering pass pattern. Warner, who threw for 305 yards, four touchdowns and three interceptions, lobbed Tucker the ball. No Detroit player was within 5 yards. Warner passed to Isaac Bruce for the 2-point conversion.

There were 2 minutes 42 seconds remaining, and the situation was dire for Detroit. Quarterback Charlie Batch was on the sideline after banging his thumb on a defender's helmet. His backup, Gus Frerotte, was at the helm, and he is most famous for injuring his neck several years ago after banging his head in celebration on a padded concrete wall while with the Washington Redskins.

''I'm not going to sit here and say I was excited about our chances at that point,'' said Detroit defensive lineman James Jones. ''But we never doubted ourselves as a team.''

On the winning drive, the Lions went 77 yards in 10 plays, the biggest of which was a 57-yard toss to Germane Crowell in front of Rams cornerback Dexter McCleon on fourth-and-28 at the Lions 21.

The drive, which started at the Lion 23, began with a false start penalty then, two plays later, Frerotte was sacked for a 14-yard loss by end Kevin Carter. Two plays after that, the quarterback was again dropped for negative yardage, this time for eight yards by tackle D'Marco Farr. That left a fourth down and 26 at the Detroit 21-yard line with 1:17 left.

Since wide receiver Germane Crowell (8 catches for 163 yards) had burned Rams cornerback Dexter McCleon all afternoon, the Lions again went to that well, figuring there was plenty to drink. Crowell bolted by McCleon for a 57-yard reception that put the Lions at the St. Louis 22 with one minute left.

''I wasn't surprised I got behind him,'' Crowell said of McCleon. ''I was running past him all day.''

Said Lions Coach Bobby Ross: ''I'm not going to sit here and sound intelligent like we did this and that on that play. We just laid the ball up.''

On third down, McCleon, who will want to incinerate this particular set of game films, was called for pass interference on Crowell. That put the ball at the Ram 12. Then Frerotte threw a wonderfully timed fade pass to Johnnie Morton for the winning score.

Detroit helped itself by studying game film of last week's Tennessee victory over St. Louis, then stole a page from the Titans' defensive blueprint. Last week, the Titans beat the Rams by stacking the line of scrimmage to stop Faulk and constantly blitzed Warner. Yesterday, Faulk had only 15 yards rushing on 11 attempts and Warner was under pressure all afternoon, sacked 4 times.

Meanwhile, Ron Rice is right, it is time to start taking the Lions seriously. In this strange N.F.L. season, who says they cannot have Super Bowl dreams?

And we ALL know what happened next, lmao.

[/zn/]

ZN, I get it. But, come from behind wins are based on so much more than just the QB.

Yeah we know. I've said that often myself. Honestly, you're preaching to a conference of choir directors.

BUT here's the thing...comeback situations invariably entail passing (and there are exceptions to that, like the GB game). The only question being asked is if the qb shows the same poise and effectiveness passing in the 2 minute or late game offense they do earlier in the game, when there are time constraints and the defense knows full well you have to pass.

And as percentages show, some qbs are just more effective at that than others. We know who they are, we don't need the numbers, but the numbers back it. For example, as much as I hate mentioning it (cause I live in New England), Brady has been part of a number of high profile comeback wins. The team changed through the years completely, except for Brady. So we know what part of this goes to the qb.

It's one thing in the list of things you want from your qb. I like the idea that the Rams can go into those situations---and all teams face those situations, no matter how many games where they lead all 4 quarters--completely trusting the qb and themselves to pull it out because they've done it before. Seattle has that with Wilson for example. He's one of the few qbs who beats 50% at that. That's with the team changing around him and him staying the one invariable.

The people who aggressively dismiss this dimension of qb play tend to show up after a loss. Then all of a sudden that dimension of qb play doesn't count.

It is what it is.

[/zn/]

And we ALL know what happened next, lmao.

Straight victories after that.


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