[max]

goff's a "big mac", pedestrian, any tier but first, blah, blah, blah... honestly, i don't know what games some of these guys are watching, rivers, good grief, roethlisberger, mama mia.... here's a riddle, who has a higher postseason qb rating, the 24-year-old goff or mr. 6-year vet luck?

Great. Play with stats out of context.

Do you really believe Luck has had the same level of supporting cast and coaching that Goff has had?

I don’t.

[aeneas1]

I dont limit my evaluation to the last 2 years. I look at their entire body of work and juxtapose that with where they are right now.

well you had no prob listing the qbs that you thought did better than goff in the rz last season, you didn't compare "their entire body" of rz work to goff's, you simply looked at one year... so again, for the 2017-2018 stretch what qbs have played better than goff? pretty simple question.

If you’re trying to sell Goff as being in that top tier category based on some stats you pull out over the past 2 years, I’m not buying it...

yet you were eager to buy into the bloggers silly stats such as:

"NFL’s Next Gen Stats provides additional context with a metric called completion percentage above expectation.... In this category, Goff ranked 16th in the NFL and trailed quarterbacks such as Cody Kessler, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Nick Foles."

even tho the blogger was clearly dishonest in his portrayal given that he intentionally didn't mention that the likes of brady (31st), rodgers (26th), roethlisberger (21st), luck (18th), etc. also "trailed" kessler, fitzpatrick and foles, and trailed goff as well.

and you were seemingly eager to buy into this as well:

"Aggressiveness - However, what is troubling in a sense is that Goff’s aggressive throw percentage was actually down from 2017 (14.3%). For Goff to take that next step, he doesn’t need to be overly aggressive but being able to take calculated risks will help him escape the system quarterback label."

when the blogger was clearly dishonest again given he failed to mention that some of the league's top qbs rank near the bottom is this metric along with goff, while some of the league's worst qbs rank near the top - rosen ranked 1st in aggressiveness, driskel 2nd, darnold 5th... mahomes ranked 37th, goff 31st, rodgers 30th, wilson 28th, brady 27th, brees 23rd, etc.

you're eager to believe the few stats, regardless of how meaningless, arcane and dishonest they are, that show goff in a bad light, but you have no interest in looking at or believing the abundance of impressive stats that fully support the great seasons he's had under mcvay - very strange max, and kinda sad.

[Fire407]

Mahomes!

[dieterbrock]

I’d swap him for Dreaj Foge in a NY minute

[/zn/]

5 subpar games out of 8. That would have to be, Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia and which other 2? New Orleans and the Superbowl or Dallas and the Superbowl?

I've got him playing 3 subpar games out of the last 8.....Detroit, Chicago and the SB.

I am counting as subpar games the 3 regular season games (Chi, Phil, Det) plus Dallas and the superbowl. For convenience subpar means a qb rating of less than 80.

In those games he averaged 101 on 196 attempts for 51.5%, 1 TD and 7 INTs, and an avg. qb rating of 59.2. Below average (though only the Chi game was just plain BAD.)

If you subtract the Chicago game as an extreme, the other 4 games are still 53.3%, 1 TD (0.65%), 3 INT, & an avg. qb rating of 69.2. An INT% of 1.97 isn't bad but it's not supposed to be larger than the TD%.

In those games a combination of things happened, and it wasn't just Goff obviously. In most of them, the OL gave up pressure; also, some of those defenses managed to not only attack the OL but to use their secondaries well enough to slow and at times confuse the passing game.

I counted 6 total subpar (below 80) games for Goff in 2018, but to put that in perspective--other third year qbs who are good now struggled at times in their 3rd year. Brady had 8 subpar games out of 16 his third year. So that's just not a rare thing.

....

[max]

well you had no prob listing the qbs that you thought did better than goff in the rz last season, you didn't compare "their entire body" of rz work to goff's, you simply looked at one year... so again, for the 2017-2018 stretch what qbs have played better than goff? pretty simple question.


yet you were eager to buy into the bloggers silly stats such as:

"NFL’s Next Gen Stats provides additional context with a metric called completion percentage above expectation.... In this category, Goff ranked 16th in the NFL and trailed quarterbacks such as Cody Kessler, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Nick Foles."

even tho the blogger was clearly dishonest in his portrayal given that he intentionally didn't mention that the likes of brady (31st), rodgers (26th), roethlisberger (21st), luck (18th), etc. also "trailed" kessler, fitzpatrick and foles, and trailed goff as well.

and you were seemingly eager to buy into this as well:

"Aggressiveness - However, what is troubling in a sense is that Goff’s aggressive throw percentage was actually down from 2017 (14.3%). For Goff to take that next step, he doesn’t need to be overly aggressive but being able to take calculated risks will help him escape the system quarterback label."

when the blogger was clearly dishonest again given he failed to mention that some of the league's top qbs rank near the bottom is this metric along with goff, while some of the league's worst qbs rank near the top - rosen ranked 1st in aggressiveness, driskel 2nd, darnold 5th... mahomes ranked 37th, goff 31st, rodgers 30th, wilson 28th, brady 27th, brees 23rd, etc.

you're eager to believe the few stats, regardless of how meaningless, arcane and dishonest they are, that show goff in a bad light, but you have no interest in looking at or believing the abundance of impressive stats that fully support the great seasons he's had under mcvay - very strange max, and kinda sad.

Huh?

Where did I say I bought all that?

I agreed with AR that some of that stuff was bogus.

When you exaggerate crap you lose credibility. Shameful

[max]

I have no problem with a discussion taking place concerning if/how Goff can improve. If fact, I enjoy it. He has areas he has room for improvement.

For instance:

Taking over and delivering when his offensive line doesn't play their best or when the run game falters.

But when the discussion morphs into will he be / can he be elite, then I have to roll my eyes. I think he's very close to that level already.....provided he makes minor improvements in certain areas.....which he has already demonstrated a propensity to do from 2016 to 2017 to 2018. I'm not complaining about an honest, reasonable discussion about his improvement, so you're misreading my viewpoint. I'm complaining about the idea he has to be one of the absolute best, which is 90% subjective and 10% statistically based. If he's just real good he's worth the draft slot, the draft chips and the money.



5 subpar games out of 8. That would have to be, Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia and which other 2? New Orleans and the Superbowl or Dallas and the Superbowl?

I've got him playing 3 subpar games out of the last 8.....Detroit, Chicago and the SB.

You forgot about the Eagles game, right? That was clearly a subpar performance.

I think he was mediocre against Dallas in playoffs. Not bad.

He was worse in Denver than against cowboys.

I thought Goff was excellent against saints in playoffs. Gurley was awful, and no Kupp in toughest environment.

[AvengerRam]

Goff’s productivity over the past two years was elite, or pretty darn close to it.

Still...I think there is another level he has not yet reached, but can.

All things considered, I can count the QBs I’d take over him right now on one hand, and have fingers to spare.

[Elvis]

https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2019/0 ... atest-news

Why Jared Goff is so much better under center than in shotgun

By: Cameron DaSilva | July 20, 2019 10:00 am ET

The Los Angeles Rams may have a high-powered offense, but it’s not because Jared Goff is constantly sitting back in shotgun. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. The Rams use shotgun formations less than any team in the league dating back two years, frequently putting Goff under center.

That’s certainly where he’s at his best, and Sean McVay is taking full advantage of it. According to Next Gen Stats, the Rams are the only team that has used shotgun less than 50 percent of the time since 2017. Goff’s numbers are respectable out of the gun, but not nearly as good as his stats from under center.

He’s one of the best when lined up under center, having thrown 24 touchdown passes (most in NFL) and only three interceptions the last two seasons.



It isn’t one single thing that makes Goff so good from under center, but a major part of his success is play-action. When he’s under center, play-action becomes much more effective because he turns his back to the defense on the fake handoff. It causes the linebackers to bite and open up the middle of the field more.

The Rams run play-action frequently when Goff is under center, and it’s easy to see why. He led the NFL in play-action yards in 2017 by a wide margin. Last season, 189 of his 209 pass attempts from under center came on play-action.



Additionally, he led the league in play-action yards and touchdowns last season, too, continuing this trend of success on such plays.



This isn’t to say Goff can’t have success out of the gun. He obviously can, but play-action fakes become far less effective in shotgun. That’s a huge reason he’s substantially better when under center, and it helps that he has a two-time All-Pro running back behind him.

[AvengerRam]

Mahomes is the easiest one.

There are some borderline (Wilson, Luck) some yes, if it was 2016 (Brady, Brees, etc,), and some close, but.. (Wentz, Watson).

I’m content with our guy.