[moklerman]

My point is I want somebody in here who will do everything it takes to make the Rams perennial winners. I don't want them pulling the stuff the Patriots pulled and there's no reason to believe they will, just because they were associated with Belichick and Kraft.

Isn't that exactly the reason to believe they might? It doesn't mean they definitely will, but once your team gets caught cheating 3 or 4 or 5 times, benefit of doubt is out the window.

On top of that, why would you think any of these guys are any good if they aren't benefiting from the cheating? Has someone from the Patriots gone on to great success once they've left the Patriots?

[rams74]

See that's the perception. The Rams did turn it over and won games when they were minus in that department. More than the NFL average by a considerable amount. So the perception is it didn't matter. And yet that was the 1 way to assure a loss. In fact it was the only way they lost. From 99-01 they didn't lose a game where they won the turnover battle. And they lost 1 game in 3 seasons when they were even in that department. So with those Rams, it was the single most important factor. When they won the turnover battle, they won the game. And yes, they were so good, they even won their fair share, a fairer share than the rest of the NFL, when they lost the turnover battle.

In 2001, they beat the niners with a -2, beat the Giants with a -2, beat the Jets with a -1, lost to the Saints with a -6, beat Carolina with a -1 and a -2 and lost to Tampa with a -4. So they were 5-2 when losing the turnover battle when the rest of the league was under .500. So fans thought that didn't matter. Except it did. And it does even more in the postseason because you're not playing any 1-15 Carolina teams. They could win when they lost that battle but they NEVER lost when they won that battle.

I think there are a lot of intertwining factors here. The GSOT offense took chances. They took a lot of chances. They were a risk-taking bunch. Therefore, they were going to turn the ball over. There was no way to run that offense without accepting that turnovers were part of the cost of doing business. And as you pointed out, they were often successful even when on the negative side of the ledger. The Rams also took risks in other aspects of the game. They were never afraid to try an onside kick, and Jeff Wilkins was one of the best onside kickers that I've ever seen. Also, the defense, while not great in and of itself, created turnovers. With the Rams scoring a lot of points, other teams had to take chances, so the defense got turnovers. Turnovers were happening on both sides of the ball, and the hope was that we wouldn't come up on the negative side of that too often.

So, say what you will about the GSOT being a turnover machine, it was part of the equation.

As for the Super Bowl, the Patriots bent rules (roughing up our receivers at every chance), and they broke rules (videotaping/spying). The fact that they came up with an effective game strategy (physically beating up our receivers) was part of the game. We didn't have an answer for it. The fact that they videotaped our practices was not part of the game. That was over the line. Way over. You can characterize that as part of "just trying to get an edge" if you want, but even the Patriot-loving league agreed that was wrong.

Personally, I don't have a problem hiring from the Patriots. I think that's a separate issue. Free agent players usually don't have any problem switching sides -- it's just business to them. This is a problem just for fans, and we usually get over it once a guy is on our team.

[Elvis]

The 2001 Rams were also top 10 in takeaways which helped.

I really thought Aeneas was gonna pick Brady off on the last drive, still waiting...

[PARAM]

Isn't that exactly the reason to believe they might? It doesn't mean they definitely will, but once your team gets caught cheating 3 or 4 or 5 times, benefit of doubt is out the window.

On top of that, why would you think any of these guys are any good if they aren't benefiting from the cheating? Has someone from the Patriots gone on to great success once they've left the Patriots?

First off, let's understand some facts. I AM NOT stumping for McDaniel, Patricia or Vrabel. I DO NOT have a favorite from among all the available candidates either from the Patriots or elsewhere. There are a couple I'd prefer to avoid. McDaniel being one but not because I'm worried about him "cheating". But because he's over rated IMHO. Sean Payton being another because I think he's over rated AND a cheater. I worry about Shannahan and McVay both being extremely young and inexperienced but I wouldn't be upset if either got the job.

On you points about the Patriots cheating, to quote Phil Collins....I DON'T CARE ANYMORE. They cheat, they get caught, they get punished and they've been in the postseason every year except 2 since they beat the Rams in SB36. They've been to 5 Superbowls since beating the Rams. Are they cheating constantly? Maybe. Maybe not. If it were that easy.......cheat, make the playoffs, win in the postseason, win Superbowls.....everybody would be doing it. I do know this. The Rams have been to the postseason twice since the Patriots beat them in SB36. That is what concerns me, not whether the Patriots are perennial cheaters or how much they benefit from it.

I respect your opinion and your wholesome approach to sports and fair play. I just don't think it's always the reality. In a perfect world, nobody would cheat, lie or steal. I just don't get all worked up about it as some other might. I'm pissed the Patriots filmed the Rams before SB36 but I don't blame the loss on that. I'm pissed that Belichick seems to escape serious consequences despite being caught numerous times. I'm not worried that should we hire a Patriot employee, we'll become massive cheaters. We won't IMHO. But we might become massive winners. And I'd like that. But like I said, they are not "gotta have" candidates as far as I'm concerned.

[Haden]

Lucifer is probably avail and could give us a winning season. Why dont we just hire him?

Well now, I guess you can rest easier knowing that neither Vrabel or Lucifer will be our next head coach.

[dieterbrock]

Well now, I guess you can rest easier knowing that neither Vrabel or Lucifer will be our next head coach.

But maybe for DC?

[Elvis]

Lucifer goes by many names...

[Haden]

But maybe for DC?

WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA