[faulkrram]

Thinking back about Goff, I always think about the games where HE was instrumental in the wins, and also instrumental in the losses. He won a few games by being extremely accurate and didn't turn the ball over much. But I remember far more games where he totally stunk up the place and cost us the games. Last year the home Tampa game really rings a bell. This year the Jets, Niners 2nd game, Seattle 2nd game stinks out the most. I seriously think if Goff plays half way decent in those 3 games, the season could have easily been a 12-4 or so year. That's a big difference in seeding for the playoff's. Looking at it honestly from that perspective, I feel mckvay is warranted in this trade. The window for Donald and many other players are dwindling and Goff just isn't that overwhelming to bank their futures around.

[aeneas1]

We will never truly know but I think we are on the right track. I think his confidence was broken on a cold Chicago night and he never really recovered from that. I think McVay did what he thought he needed to do to restore that confidence but Goff was not taking advantage of the opportunities that were designed for him. No player will ever say it but I have a feeling that there was some resentment from some that he was the problem. Like I said, we will never truly know but we may get a sense by what players will say once they are back on the field with Stafford under center. Nothing direct but there will be quotes that will be interpreted to give us insight.

this would make more sense to me if not for the accurate stories that started to surface regarding the new defensive looks teams were rolling out in order to counter mcvay's 11-personnel packages, the type of defensive looks that were on full display in the super bowl and that continued through 2020... it seems clear now that mcvay has always believed that he had answers to those looks, solid responses to those looks, but was unable to show it because of goff.

in fact mcvay seemed to think wolford's play illustrated what the rams offense was capable of with the right qb under center, something that i can only chalk up as mcvay's over the top total hand-washing of goff by then, i mean wolford led 11 drives, 7 which netted a combined 51 yards, a bunch of 3/outs and a pick.

anyway, the above article seems to jive well with what we all saw at the end, a hc who was completely done with his qb, so much so that he didn't even want to see him or talk to him before he was sent packing which, regardless of how tough a biz the nfl can be, still strikes me as very odd at best, and fucked up at worst.

that said, goff is yesterday's news in terms of the rams going forward, we've got a new qb in town and an some hill climbing to do in order to become a top tier scoring offense again... can mcvay do it stafford? or will the rams become the lions of the west coast?

[/zn/]

This year the Jets, Niners 2nd game, Seattle 2nd game stinks out the most.

Yeah he had 4 bad games and you named 3 of them. I count Miami as another Goff bad game.

First, you know how many bad games Saffold had his 5th year? For 2013 I count below a qb rating of 70 as a bad game. And with that measure, he had 4. In fact it's not rare for a good qb to have bad games in their 5th year.

The 4 bad Goff games, you know what else they had in common? And it wasn't just Goff playing poorly. It was the defense not living up to its own standard. For that I count the Jets game, to an extent the 2nd SF game...and along with those 2 games there was also the Bills game and the Green Bay game. At least the Green Bay game you have to point to Donald not being 100%.

In one of those games the entire team showed up flat. I count the Jets game and the also the 1st SF game. That was disappointing. They came ready to play against New England and then let down the week after against the Jets.

In 5 games the OL was overwhelmed by a defensive attack that went after them and they couldn't handle it. For that I count both SF games, the Miami game, the Jets game, the 2nd Seattle game, and the Green Bay game. The combination of the 2020 OL and McVay's problems with certain kinds of defensive attacks combined to stymie them. But Goff played well in the 2nd half of the Jets game and in the Green Bay game in spite of what was going on around him.

Goff meanwhile played decent/okay to good to very good in 13 games total (counting both playoff games) and in those games they went 10-3.

One example? Tampa destroyed Rodgers twice. When the Rams played them, Tampa took away the run (1.8 a carry) but the Rams threw on them 51 times to win, and that includes a final scoring drive in the last minutes to break a tie--a drive that was all passing.

I don't think the season got down to Goff's 4 bad games. And he played well in 3 losses--Bills, Jets, and Green Bay (though against the Jets it was in the 2nd half).

A lot of things cost them games. If the defense had showed up against the Bills and Jets they would have been 12-4. If the OL were consistently solid they would have stood a better chance in 5 games.

But now it's on to Stafford so in a lot of ways this is all academic.

...

[WestCoastRam]

The whole threads worth a click through. It was two years in the making but this year was a horrible mess of unconscionable turnovers and missed WRs down the field in the passing game. There's not much "game-planning" "offensive design" McVay could have done to solve those issues.

[aeneas1]

The whole threads worth a click through. It was two years in the making but this year was a horrible mess of unconscionable turnovers and missed WRs down the field in the passing game. There's not much "game-planning" "offensive design" McVay could have done to solve those issues.

honestly, so much of this stuff can easily be shot down when comparing the all-22 to screen grabs, i've done it ad nauseam for a lot of rams qbs including goff, just sayin'...

[aeneas1]

entertaining.....

--------------------------------

Rams use selective memory in deciding Jared Goff was the problem - They trade Goff and two first-round picks for Detroit’s talented but weathered Matthew Stafford

PUBLISHED: January 31, 2021 at 10:00 a.m. | UPDATED: February 1, 2021 at 11:40 a.m.

Before they’d unpacked all the boxes from St. Louis, the Rams used the first pick of the 2016 draft to select Jared Goff.

They gave Tennessee six draft choices in exchange. One of them became Derrick Henry, two-time NFL rushing champion.

Only 17 months ago the Rams gave Goff a four-year, $134 million contract, without blinking.

Only four months ago Goff hurried the Rams to 28 consecutive points to take the lead at Buffalo, a lead the defense couldn’t protect.

Only two months ago the Rams went to Tampa Bay, now the NFC champs, and won 27-24, and Goff threw three touchdown passes and completed 39 of 51 passes for 376 yards.

Goff broke his thumb in a loss to Seattle that cost the Rams a chance to win the NFC West and get a playoff game at home. Two weeks later he swallowed the pain and helped the Rams win a playoff game at Seattle. The next week he played precisely at Green Bay in a 32-18 Divisional Playoff loss.

But there were enough bad reads, fumbles, and flat performances to purge all that, even from the gigabyte memory of coach Sean McVay.

At some point Goff had plunged from solution to problem, from leader to anchor. McVay anointed the undrafted John Wolford to start that playoff game in Seattle, even though Wolford hadn’t produced a touchdown when the Rams beat Arizona the week before.

“I guess everything does change, except what you choose to recall,” Merle Haggard once sang. But bless McVay and general manager Les Snead for honesty. This was no misdirection play. Since season’s end they have paraded Goff around a drive-in swap meet, with a price tag around his neck.

Goff was not unclaimed for long.

On Saturday night the Rams shipped Goff and two first-round draft choices to Detroit for Matthew Stafford, another former first-overall pick and the high school catcher for Clayton Kershaw in Highland Park, Texas.

With that, Goff goes to one of the NFL’s permanent pits of misery. But at least he is rescued from the undercarriage of the bus.

Brad Holmes, Detroit’s new general manager, was the Rams’ director of college personnel. He argued that the Rams should take Goff over Carson Wentz. He will embrace Goff, as will offensive coordinator Anthony Lynn, the former Chargers coach. The Lions are said to be rebuilding, a project that began long before Alex Karras became Mongo.

Stafford turns 33 on Super Sunday. He is considerably older in quarterback years. In a five-year span he suffered 213 sacks. In 12 years he played with only one 1,000-yard rusher (Reggie Bush, 2013). The Lions played Seattle, New Orleans and Dallas in the playoffs when Stafford was there and went 0-3.

Stafford’s critics often bring up 2013. The Lions were 6-3 and then lost five of their last six and went no further. Stafford threw 10 interceptions in those games, completed 45 percent of his passes and had one quarterback rating over 75.

Yet Stafford is probably an upgrade. He throws a fine deep ball, provided the Rams find a deep-route runner, and he doesn’t get fazed by the pass rush. He is also tougher than an Alaskan trucker. As the contusions mounted, he managed to start 136 consecutive games. In 2014 Detroit won nine games and Stafford led fourth-quarter comebacks in eight of them.

Goff and Stafford are representative of most NFL quarterbacks. Given tools, they can win games. Deprived of tools, they can’t.

Goff is altogether different when he is protected, when the Rams can run well enough to establish play-action, and when he connects with Cooper Kupp. He made the plays to win an NFC championship in New Orleans.

He won a 54-51 game over Kansas City that was deemed unforgettable, until everyone forgot it.

You can’t escape the suspicion that something else shook McVay’s relationship with Goff, something that went beyond red-zone interceptions.

Stafford isn’t the reason this probably is a bad trade for the Rams. At the moment they don’t have a first-round pick until 2024. They will struggle to sign Leonard Floyd, Troy Hill and John Johnson II. Their coaching staff has already been plundered.

But Snead has said an NFL season is like a Wrestle Royal, with one survivor and 31 losers. A choice between ambition and stability is no choice at all.

Did you think Andrew Whitworth’s Rams career would outlive Jared Goff’s? It might. Are you wondering why a 11-7 team, with four consecutive winning seasons, is acting like it just went 4-12? You’re paying attention.

The Goff vs. Stafford discussions will resound until September and then proliferate each Sunday thereafter.

Given a do-over, it’s an easy call: Derrick Henry.

https://www.ocregister.com/2021/01/31/w ... e-problem/

[Elvis]

[CanuckRightWinger]

Pssst....
The Orange County Register says that Goff
"played precisely at GB in a 32-18 Divisional Playoff loss."

....pass it on.

ME: Clearly the word "precisely" has a different nuance in Anaheim than up here NorthOfTheBorder eh.
To wit, when Los Ramos got the ball back with nearly 7 minutes left in the GB game, and down 2 TDs, Jared Goff produced "precisely" 1 Ram First Down...
before folding like a cheap WalMart lawn chair.

Anyways, Goff is gone. The witch is dead.

Go Mathew Stafford!!
Go Los Angeles Rams!!!

[PARAM]

I liked the part when he said, "you can only do so many blockbuster deals" and then later, "you can only do so many bad contracts". Let's take them each.

On the blockbuster deals, he's talking about trading 1st round picks to get Goff and then trading first round picks to get Stafford for Goff. And certainly, you expect a Championship when you do a blockbuster deal. So, Snead did the deal for Goff and McVay using Goff got the Rams to a Superbowl in Goff's 3rd year. Not a Championship but maybe that's where that "growth thing" comes in. A natural progression would be...get back and win it. Now they've done the deal to get rid of Goff and his contract and acquired Stafford. This is the part when they have to get back to the SB and win it.

On the bad contracts, we had Gurley, Cooks and Goff. They ate money on the first two and went 10-6. They're eating money on Goff and we'll see how that works out. The key is not the money because regardless of how much dead money you eat, the owner is only spending to the cap. It's not like the cap is 190 mil and the dead money puts his expense at 230 mil. The key is to keep winning. And so far, except for one 9-7 season, they have won. But it all comes back to the Superbowl.

On McVay using the Gruden excuse, that's worrisome. Is it the system or the QB? We're gonna find out.

[PARAM]

Pssst....
The Orange County Register says that Goff
"played precisely at GB in a 32-18 Divisional Playoff loss."

....pass it on.

ME: Clearly the word "precisely" has a different nuance in Anaheim than up here NorthOfTheBorder eh.
To wit, when Los Ramos got the ball back with nearly 7 minutes left in the GB game, and down 2 TDs, Jared Goff produced "precisely" 1 Ram First Down...
before folding like a cheap WalMart lawn chair.

Anyways, Goff is gone. The witch is dead.

Go Mathew Stafford!!
Go Los Angeles Rams!!!

He started out a bit slow in 2017 but fortunately, the system allowed us to go 5-2. Seemed like the light came on vs the Giants....51-17 win. From that Giants game in 2017, through the KC game in 2018, we thought we had a franchise QB. 19 games, 16-3 and a playoff loss to the Falcons (our first clue we should have been concerned about Goff), a QB rating of 111.3, 5632 yards, 49 TDs 9 Ints. Then that damn Detroit game happened and the rest of the NFL figured out Goff.

From that game through the Seattle game in week 15 this year, an 86.4 QB rating. 36 games, 21-15 (thanks to the system and the defense this year). 9731 yards 48 TDs 35 Ints. Not the same guy. He teased us looking like Joe Montana for 19 games after a decent 5-2 start, then mediocrity. If it weren't for McVay's system, the defense and John Wolford, we might have not made the playoffs this year.

He didn't win the Green Bay game. He didn't get us into the postseason last year. So, yeah, he's regressed. I feel like a fool thinking we had something in him. That's that "growth thing" the guy in the video was talking about I assume. He proved his toughness but that's not enough to win in the NFL. So, "it's the QB, not the system". That should make everybody at ease and relaxed. We'll see what we can do with a legit NFL QB in 2021.

I'm hoping like hell the oddsmakers are right and we're back in the Superbowl in 12 months.