[Ramsdude]

weird how the rams major offensive collapses have come against certain dc, and specific defensive schemes, it's almost as if there might be an x's and o's issue, a problem attacking these looks....

Exactly, but that wouldn't coincide with the Goff basher's agenda. I say "basher's" because it's most of the same people posting the same stuff over and over on multiple boards lol.

They try to slip in a "Goff played well today" every once in a while so they can also say "I also mention when Goff does well" line to avoid being negative all the time.

IMO, It's clearly on both McVay and Goff when they face SF as well certain other DC's. IMO, McVay is just as much too blame some times for the offensive struggles by bad play calling and not being able to adjust to what "certain" Defenses do as quickly (sometimes not at all) as we would like.

I am one of McVay's biggest fans but even I can see that he struggles against "certain" schemes. Just as Goff has some weaknesses...so does McVay and we NEED them both to get better at it...TOGETHER.

[aeneas1]

Exactly, but that wouldn't coincide with the Goff basher's agenda. I say "basher's" because it's most of the same people posting the same stuff over and over on multiple boards lol.

They try to slip in a "Goff played well today" every once in a while so they can also say "I also mention when Goff does well" line to avoid being negative all the time.

IMO, It's clearly on both McVay and Goff when they face SF as well certain other DC's. IMO, McVay is just as much too blame some times for the offensive struggles by bad play calling and not being able to adjust to what "certain" Defenses do as quickly (sometimes not at all) as we would like.

I am one of McVay's biggest fans but even I can see that he struggles against "certain" schemes. Just as Goff has some weaknesses...so does McVay and we NEED them both to get better at it...TOGETHER.

nicely put @ramsdude....

personally i'm not married to goff, if i thought he sucked, if i thought he was another bradford, i would say so in a new york sec, hell even if i thought he was a below average qb, a guy who hurt the rams chances more than he helped them, i'd be first in line blasting him and lobbying for a change, but that's not what i've seen from him, not at all.

instead i've seen a very capable qb who never gets rattled, who inexplicably, given his somewhat slight frame, always gets up after getting drilled and never misses a snap, a guy who can play lights out when he and mcvay are on the same page, when the gameplan is effective, when the rams offense is put in a position to succeed.

and mcvay, love the guy to death, i think we're easily one of the luckiest nfl fanbases to have him as the head coach of our team, but clearly, and painfully obviously, he continues to struggle against certain schemes, and certain defenses - to think he has little to do with it, to think it's just goff, defies the numbers and the eye test. and common sense.

but folks will continue to ape nonsense, like aikman and buck last thursday, claiming that goff has turnover issues - 3 games, against the usual defensive suspects, are responsible for that narrative, in his other 10 games his pick rate is well below he league average, top 10 actually, and he's lost just 1 fumble, but let's not let facts get in the way of bias, or a canned player profile lazily put together for talking head consumption.

[max]

I think you're selling Goff short. Defenses "like" SF and Miami? He did well against Philadelphia, Buffalo, the Giants, Washington, Chicago and Tampa. It would be more accurate to say "Goff isn't facing SF the rest of the year" or even more accurate than that "The Rams aren't facing SF the rest of the year". The last two years the Rams are 18-11, 18-7 against teams not named the forty-niners. That win percentage equates to 11.5 wins on the year. Perhaps the fact we're 0-4 against SF the last 2 years might suggest it's more than just Goff? Our defense, which has been stellar this year, allowed 3 first half TD drives by SF of 76, 93 and 81, over the span of 4 possessions in the first matchup. I'm not putting that game on our D but it would seem they didn't exactly have a stellar game either.

That's fair.

Back in the early 70's, the Rams would sweep the Niners but the Niners won the division 3 years straight. The Rams won 10 straight games against the Niners from 1970-1975, even though the Niners won the West in 70, 71, and 72.

[/zn/]

I think you're selling Goff short. Defenses "like" SF and Miami? He did well against Philadelphia, Buffalo, the Giants, Washington, Chicago and Tampa.

"Like" in this case does not just mean top 10 D.

It means an innovative coordinator + a top DL + a top secondary. (Remember that in the first SF game the Rams were slowed by Verret breaking out this year as a top corner.)

Not all the teams you list have all that.

This year McV/Goff struggled with that combination.

....

[PARAM]

"Like" in this case does not just mean top 10 D.

It means an innovative coordinator + a top DL + a top secondary. (Remember that in the first SF game the Rams were slowed by Verret breaking out this year as a top corner.)

Not all the teams you list have all that.

This year McV/Goff struggled with that combination.

....

Which is basically the argument. The Rams have struggled against SF the last two years. Miami? Unfortunately they won't play them again for another 4 years...unless they meet up in the SB....but I'd bet my house, in a 2nd matchup, the Rams would beat them. The Bears? That D shut us down in 2018. They did a good job in 2019 and 2020 but lost anyway. The Saints? We beat them in the CCG and again last year. Minnesota, Atlanta, Dallas, Philly, the same. SF is another issue. Twice a year and McVay AND Goff haven't done well against them.

If you look at the teams we lost to since McVay has been here, SF (x5*), Seattle (x2), Philly (x2), Washington, Minnesota, Atlanta, N.Orleans, Chicago, New England, Tampa, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Buffalo and Miami. We've beaten each one of those NFC teams since they first beat us but SF is the only one who continues to give us trouble. The AFC? We don't get a chance but every 4 years but the 2nd time we've faced BB, it was a win and there's a chance we could see one of the others this year. Buffalo?

I seriously believe it's a mental thing with SF. Shanahan vs McVay way more than SF vs the Rams or the SF D vs Goff. The reason I say that is, I don't think it changes if Saleh leaves. It's still going to be a huge battle for the Rams.

[/zn/]

Which is basically the argument. The Rams have struggled against SF the last two years. Miami? Unfortunately they won't play them again for another 4 years...unless they meet up in the SB....but I'd bet my house, in a 2nd matchup, the Rams would beat them. The Bears? That D shut us down in 2018. They did a good job in 2019 and 2020 but lost anyway. The Saints? We beat them in the CCG and again last year. Minnesota, Atlanta, Dallas, Philly, the same. SF is another issue. Twice a year and McVay AND Goff haven't done well against them.

If you look at the teams we lost to since McVay has been here, SF (x5*), Seattle (x2), Philly (x2), Washington, Minnesota, Atlanta, N.Orleans, Chicago, New England, Tampa, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Buffalo and Miami. We've beaten each one of those NFC teams since they first beat us but SF is the only one who continues to give us trouble. The AFC? We don't get a chance but every 4 years but the 2nd time we've faced BB, it was a win and there's a chance we could see one of the others this year. Buffalo?

I seriously believe it's a mental thing with SF. Shanahan vs McVay way more than SF vs the Rams or the SF D vs Goff. The reason I say that is, I don't think it changes if Saleh leaves. It's still going to be a huge battle for the Rams.

The issue isn't losing. And I myself already said they have beaten top 10 defenses.

It's the games where Goff clearly struggles. I count 3 games like that this year--Miami and both SF games.

What do THOSE games have in common.

I am saying it's partly the opponents and a particular set of defensive strengths (which though doesn't account for it alone), plus Goff struggling, plus McVay struggling to get them on track (often by not adjusting effectively in-game to the defensive scheme he is facing and/or the issues the offense is having against that defense).

The point of the discussion was, do you count Goff's 3 bad games as indicative of who he is? Or is that a unique set of games, and Goff/McVay will not struggle like that in other games.

If the 3 games are a unique set, then you can take the qb rating Goff shows in the other 10 games as more indicative of who and what he is. The avg. of the other 10 games rank him as a top 10 qb.

...

[PARAM]

The point of the discussion was, do you count Goff's 3 bad games as indicative of who he is? Or is that a unique set of games, and Goff/McVay will not struggle like that in other games.

If the 3 games are a unique set, then you can take the qb rating Goff shows in the other 10 games as more indicative of who and what he is. The avg. of the other 10 games rank him as a top 10 qb.

...

No, I don't count those 3 games as indicative.

On the winning and losing, I was simply saying....right now, to my mind's eye....the only team we would have extreme difficulty beating is SF and it's got more to do with McVay's game plans and adjustments or lack thereof, than Goff's inability to handle pressure, the blitz or anything else. If we played Miami again, just like when we've faced Chicago, Minnesota a second time, we would beat them because IMHO, they don't have a mental factor/block/advantage over McVay. Shanahan does.

[aeneas1]

game-by-game numbers for the 7th, 11th, and 22nd ranked qbs in qb rating:

[PARAM]

game-by-game numbers for the 7th, 11th, and 22nd ranked qbs in qb rating:

02.png

Hopefully Goff follows form, as far as his last 3 games of the year (2017-2019), though with a better result in the W/L column. 20 TD, 4 Int, 99.3 rating

[/zn/]

No, I don't count those 3 games as indicative.

On the winning and losing, I was simply saying....right now, to my mind's eye....the only team we would have extreme difficulty beating is SF and it's got more to do with McVay's game plans and adjustments or lack thereof, than Goff's inability to handle pressure, the blitz or anything else. If we played Miami again, just like when we've faced Chicago, Minnesota a second time, we would beat them because IMHO, they don't have a mental factor/block/advantage over McVay. Shanahan does.

Okay yeah that's plausible.

I didn't read you very well the first time, sry!

.