[St. Loser Fan]

Stan wanted to do for St. Louis and the midwest what he is now doing for Inglewood.

What are you talking about? When did Stan propose anything like Inglewood in St. Louis?

[moklerman]

What are you talking about? When did Stan propose anything like Inglewood in St. Louis?

I don't remember exactly but they talked about wanting the NFL draft/combine, Olympics, Soccer, etc. all as a part of an entertainment and sports hub that would make a global impact. I assume it was at one of the town meeting type of events or something along those lines.

Sorry I don't have the dates or links but I know it was being discussed at some point because that was at a time when I thought the Rams moving back to LA was never going to happen or even a possibility. Stan doesn't do things in a small way and when he took over the Rams he obviously didn't want to be tied and limited to an outdated stadium that he didn't own.

The situation went from him really expanding and turning the St. Louis area into a sports mecca to being forced to deal with the CDC to haggling over EJD improvements to him finally just washing his hands of it all and moving. Even though he's footing a large portion of the bills, I'm sure he wanted some kind of concessions or guarantees or privileges that for whatever reason, "St. Louis" fought over.

Maybe my impression is wrong but it has always seemed to me that the local government there did everything they could to challenge and eventually alienate Kroenke(among other NFL'ers over the years). With Bidwill, it made sense for the taxpayers to decline paying for a new stadium for him. With Kroenke, I think they screwed up and got greedy.

[St. Loser Fan]

I don't remember exactly but they talked about wanting the NFL draft/combine, Olympics, Soccer, etc. all as a part of an entertainment and sports hub that would make a global impact. I assume it was at one of the town meeting type of events or something along those lines.

Sorry I don't have the dates or links but I know it was being discussed at some point because that was at a time when I thought the Rams moving back to LA was never going to happen or even a possibility. Stan doesn't do things in a small way and when he took over the Rams he obviously didn't want to be tied and limited to an outdated stadium that he didn't own.

The situation went from him really expanding and turning the St. Louis area into a sports mecca to being forced to deal with the CDC to haggling over EJD improvements to him finally just washing his hands of it all and moving. Even though he's footing a large portion of the bills, I'm sure he wanted some kind of concessions or guarantees or privileges that for whatever reason, "St. Louis" fought over.

Maybe my impression is wrong but it has always seemed to me that the local government there did everything they could to challenge and eventually alienate Kroenke(among other NFL'ers over the years). With Bidwill, it made sense for the taxpayers to decline paying for a new stadium for him. With Kroenke, I think they screwed up and got greedy.

Now your just making things up and/or imagining things that didn't happen.

Why would he make St. Louis a sports mecca when he had already built one in Denver? In Colorado Stan owns/owned
-a NHL hockey team
-a NBA basketball team
-the arena they play in, which includes a 10,000 sq ft penthouse
-the MLS soccer team
-the Altitude sports network.

I don't remember and can't find a single article to support your claim about his bringing all that to St. Louis.

I don't know what challenges and alienation you're talking about. St. Louis made a proposal to update the Dome, Stan countered and then shut everything down as he made a play for the Dodgers and bought the Hollywood Park land. What was St. Louis supposed to do if Stan wouldn't return our calls?
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/121 ... i_internal

[moklerman]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/108 ... is-la-next

The Rams themselves have repeatedly stated they are not specifically concerned about the top 25 percent clause, per se. They have consistently emphasized finding a global solution that will work for the citizens, the CVC and the Rams in making St. Louis more of a national and international destination.

[moklerman]

Now your just making things up and/or imagining things that didn't happen.

Why would he make St. Louis a sports mecca when he had already built one in Denver? In Colorado Stan owns/owned
-a NHL hockey team
-a NBA basketball team
-the arena they play in, which includes a 10,000 sq ft penthouse
-the MLS soccer team
-the Altitude sports network.

I don't remember and can't find a single article to support your claim about his bringing all that to St. Louis.

I don't know what challenges and alienation you're talking about. St. Louis made a proposal to update the Dome, Stan countered and then shut everything down as he made a play for the Dodgers and bought the Hollywood Park land. What was St. Louis supposed to do if Stan wouldn't return our calls?
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/121 ... i_internal

Oh c'mon, the CVC was NEVER going to pony up $700M for upgrades. That's just ridiculous. They wouldn't even keep the stadium up to the agreement in the original lease and were living on exemptions and borrowed time for over a decade.

Which is all after it was too late anyway. When Stan took over full control of the Rams is when all of this stuff that I think happened went down. He gained control in 2010 and by 2012, things appeared to have soured. The arbitration and proposals and counter-proposals dragged on later than that but he wanted to do something grand but St. Louis didn't want to just let him do it. They wanted too big of a slice of the pie or control or whatever.

Stan didn't continue to pursue owning a baseball team but he did continue to want an impressive sports complex.

[St. Loser Fan]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/108 ... is-la-next

Okay. Where's the NFL draft, the NFL combine, Olympics and soccer? Where's the sports mecca talk?

[St. Loser Fan]

Oh c'mon, the CVC was NEVER going to pony up $700M for upgrades. That's just ridiculous. They wouldn't even keep the stadium up to the agreement in the original lease and were living on exemptions and borrowed time for over a decade.

Which is all after it was too late anyway. When Stan took over full control of the Rams is when all of this stuff that I think happened went down. He gained control in 2010 and by 2012, things appeared to have soured. The arbitration and proposals and counter-proposals dragged on later than that but he wanted to do something grand but St. Louis didn't want to just let him do it. They wanted too big of a slice of the pie or control or whatever.

Stan didn't continue to pursue owning a baseball team but he did continue to want an impressive sports complex.

No they weren't going to because that $700 million request from the Rams was crazy.
1) it would have meant tearing down 60% of the existing stadium. During that time the entire attached convention center would have been unusable. The estimated convention business loss as $400 million to $600 million
2) the Rams would have had to play 3 full seasons at a neutral site. Either hours away at the University of Missouri or University of Illinois.
3) the Rams would not agree to any sort of lease extension: not even 5 or 10 years. They could have moved after the 2025 season.

You must think Stan is a delicate easily offended flower if 2 rounds of negotiations were "sour".

[Hacksaw]

One should never poke a sleeping lion.

[moklerman]

Okay. Where's the NFL draft, the NFL combine, Olympics and soccer? Where's the sports mecca talk?

Believe it or don't. I read far too many articles, message boards and threads to remember exactly where it was discussed 9 years ago. This guy referenced the subject but not the details.

I don't see how this conversation can lead to anything anyway considering your view of what happened back then. You think Stan is Satan and that St. Louis acted in good faith when so much contradicts those ideas.

St. Louis sold it's soul to lure Georgia back home with her football team and they didn't care that they were signing a poison pill to make it happen. They didn't fulfill their end of the bargain that they promised and Stan didn't like the way things were being presented and handled regarding what he wanted to do in terms of a stadium.

The only realistic solution for St. Louis to keep the Rams was to drop their demands for the EJD, let Stan buy whatever land he wanted and to let him build and control the entertainment complex that he was paying for. St. Louis' long history of screwing things up with the NFL does not suggest to me that in this case they did everything right. They were greedy and tried to force Stan to do something he did not want to do and he walked away.

Did he salt the earth on the way out? Possibly. Probably. St. Louis tried poking the bear and they got what they got. All I know is Stan spent a LOT of money to give the Rams their very own home. For the first time in 80+ years !!! I haven't seen anything that suggests to me that he was being disingenuous when he bought the team about staying in St. Louis.

He is a developer and planner and the team talked about wanting to do much more than put band-aids on the EJD. They were sincere about that it seems obvious to me that St. Louis was the problem. Stan spent the money. Much more money than he would have had to spend in St. Louis to make it happen.

[moklerman]

No they weren't going to because that $700 million request from the Rams was crazy.
1) it would have meant tearing down 60% of the existing stadium. During that time the entire attached convention center would have been unusable. The estimated convention business loss as $400 million to $600 million
2) the Rams would have had to play 3 full seasons at a neutral site. Either hours away at the University of Missouri or University of Illinois.
3) the Rams would not agree to any sort of lease extension: not even 5 or 10 years. They could have moved after the 2025 season.

You must think Stan is a delicate easily offended flower if 2 rounds of negotiations were "sour".

No, I think Stan is a smart businessman who usually gets what he wants and being forced to play out the dance of negotiations he knew weren't genuine were a waste of time and thumbing of the nose to the spectacular plans that he wanted to realize.

Why in the world would ANY owner that just bought a team and wanted to build something nice for it stay where he was being forced to inherit and pay to upgrade a relic that he wouldn't own or benefit from?

St. Louis tried to twist Stan's arm into spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a stadium that he didn't own. I mean, that's ludicrous. The team fulfilled it's end of the lease and the CVC did NOT.