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I had an interesting DM conversation w Jourdan last night, primarily regarding Rams drafting and more specifically Tutu.

She indicated that While you can never prepare for the amount of injuries they have faced, and a couple of their UDFAs look really good, a “luxury” draft pick is not sustainable within their team-building model.

Clearly, Tutu was a luxury pick driven by McVay.

I expressed that Humphrey was the sensible pick and many insightful Rams fans were floored when they picked Tutu over him.

Jourdan added that the sensible pick is not only steady, but genuinely helps the team enormously and contributes.

She also said she thought the Bruss pick was “the execs course-correcting”. And that they need more input from coaches during the draft, especially when they don’t think they can coach up a player because of physical limitations like Tutu.

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I'd like to ask her if she agrees with the many insightful Ram fans who seem to believe if we had Creed Humphrey right now, all our current troubles and any going forward, wouldn't exist.

I would think with their "team building model", a luxury pick IS sustainable IF they hit on the right UDFA's. That's not saying the luxury pick will work out but passing on the "sensible pick" can be neutralized by hitting on a UDFA.

Did she say who she thought the (multiple) UDFA hits were? I'm assuming Alaric Jackson is one. Possibly Marquis Copeland another. And of course if Lance McCutcheon (who a lot of insightful Ram fans believe should be playing) turned out to be a hit, I would think the Tutu/Humphrey debate would be irrelevant considering the OL/WR connection of Jackson/McCutcheon. In fact, it might be a better result, having the WR position that failed and the OL that was passed over. A two for one.

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She said this…

A few weeks back Coen was talking about game flow and how they can play Powell more because he’s already in the flow of contributing to the game via special teams and run blocking etc, that was telling to me.

I think we have to wait and see on Bruss, to me that’s execs course-correcting, and Van has been great (tho underrated esp in a Kupp-heavy offense/injury last year and entering this year). But second and third rounders need to produce in this system and they then depend on them for comp picks.

Point here is that the Rams model doesn’t allow for luxury picks in the 2nd/3rd rounds. It hurts them more than other teams.

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Point here is that the Rams model doesn’t allow for luxury picks in the 2nd/3rd rounds. It hurts them more than other teams.

I get that, because they never have first round picks. But what I'm asking is, can't that (missing on picks in the 2nd/3rd) be corrected by hitting on UDFA's (or far lower round picks)? For instance, in 2000 the Patriots missed bad in the first round on that phenom LB Andy Katzenmoyer from "The Ohio St." but hit in the 6th round with Tom Brady. It completely changed their fortunes. Not that any team should make it a habit of missing on 1st/2nd/3rd round picks, mind you. Hell, Snead and Fisher hit on many of their high picks but got nothing past the 3rd round. And that had a negative affect.

[ramsman34]

I get this argument. Yet, last year - without massive injuries and with better players whom they did not adequately prepare for losing - they won the Super Bowl. Tutu had no net effect on that. Team building wise, tut was a wasted pick and Creed would certainly solve problems. But the way I see it, that doesn’t matter anymore. Learning from that mistake matters big time. They can’t do that again. Even if they can offset mid round mistakes with UFDAs, they’d be much better off not making in the first place. But they will miss on picks in the future. Every team does. Hopefully those misses will be few and their unexpected hits will over compensate, as PA opined.

Interesting insight from Jourdan Max. She’s is fantastic and I hope is with the Rams for the foreseeable future.

[ramsman34]

I think something inferred here is that those mid round hits are critical because of their effect on the cap. They just cost less than first rounders, near term and second contract.

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I think something inferred here is that those mid round hits are critical because of their effect on the cap. They just cost less than first rounders, near term and second contract.

That seems to be their formula. Less expensive draft choices, who if successful are either retained or allowed to leave via FA bringing back comp picks. They go out and get established players when needed. Whitworth, Woods, Watson, Cooks, Peters, Talib, Fowler, Ramsey, Floyd, Stafford, OBJ, Miller, Wagner, Robinson, etc. They couldn't come close to that level of talent over a 6 year period in the draft. And if those guys depart as UFAs it brings higher comp picks. We can bitch about the draft misses and guys passed over but it's hard to argue with the results. Well it can be argued when they go on a 3 game November losing streak or if they start 3-4 but.......

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That seems to be their formula. Less expensive draft choices, who if successful are either retained or allowed to leave via FA bringing back comp picks. They go out and get established players when needed. Whitworth, Woods, Watson, Cooks, Peters, Talib, Fowler, Ramsey, Floyd, Stafford, OBJ, Miller, Wagner, Robinson, etc. They couldn't come close to that level of talent over a 6 year period in the draft. And if those guys depart as UFAs it brings higher comp picks. We can bitch about the draft misses and guys passed over but it's hard to argue with the results. Well it can be argued when they go on a 3 game November losing streak or if they start 3-4 but.......

We’ve had a great run. But it’s possible that not hitting on their top picks the past few years will cause a significant problem.

Tutu was a massive error in judgment. Akers and Rapp haven’t been good. And jury is out on Bruss. These are the top picks the past 4 years.

How long can we sustain with this model by trading away first rounders if their is very little talent to support it in our drafts? It’s easy to say, well, we are compensating with UDFAs. But some other teams are doing well with UDFAs also plus they are doing much better with their 2nd and 3rd rounders.

Other teams are now getting better than us because they drafted better. Plus they have caught onto our model of trading first rounders for top talent. Look at the Dolphins as an example.

And our stars are getting older too. Our best players are all on the wrong side of 30. Just saying there is reason for serious concern here that the clock is running out and may strike 12 soon.

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Other teams are now getting better than us because they drafted better. Plus they have caught onto our model of trading first rounders for top talent. Look at the Dolphins as an example.

The Dolphins have "caught onto our model" and traded first rounders for top talent?

From 2017-2019 they went 18-30 and had 5 picks in the first round of the 2020 (3) and 2021 (2) draft. It would be pretty hard to not have drafted better than the Rams. Yet one of their first round picks from 2020, CB Noah Igbinoghene (#30) has started just 4 games in 3 years with 1 pick, 5 PD and 22 solo tackles. I don't know much about him. Is he a stud?

They've made 12 selections in the first 3 rounds the last 3 drafts. Is that copying the Rams model?

Their 4th round pick from this year, Erik Ezukanma, has yet to play. A 3rd round pick from 2021, TE Hunter Long has started 2 games and has 1 career reception. They traded 2018 first round pick Minkah Fitzpatrick to Pittsburgh. 2019 3rd rounder, G Michael Dieter hasn't started a game since 2019. 2018 2nd round pick, TE Mike Gesicki was on the trade block, hasn't started a game in 2022 and is on pace for 450 receiving yards. They have seemingly drafted OL well, getting G Robert Hunt (#39, 2020), T Austin Jackson (#18, 2020) and T Liam Eichenberg (#42, 2021), though Jackson has missed 7 games this year to injury.

But they are 5-3 right now (after going 9-8 in 2021) so clearly they're doing better than the Rams.

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The Dolphins have "caught onto our model" and traded first rounders for top talent?

From 2017-2019 they went 18-30 and had 5 picks in the first round of the 2020 (3) and 2021 (2) draft. It would be pretty hard to not have drafted better than the Rams. Yet one of their first round picks from 2020, CB Noah Igbinoghene (#30) has started just 4 games in 3 years with 1 pick, 5 PD and 22 solo tackles. I don't know much about him. Is he a stud?

They've made 12 selections in the first 3 rounds the last 3 drafts. Is that copying the Rams model?

Their 4th round pick from this year, Erik Ezukanma, has yet to play. A 3rd round pick from 2021, TE Hunter Long has started 2 games and has 1 career reception. They traded 2018 first round pick Minkah Fitzpatrick to Pittsburgh. 2019 3rd rounder, G Michael Dieter hasn't started a game since 2019. 2018 2nd round pick, TE Mike Gesicki was on the trade block, hasn't started a game in 2022 and is on pace for 450 receiving yards. They have seemingly drafted OL well, getting G Robert Hunt (#39, 2020), T Austin Jackson (#18, 2020) and T Liam Eichenberg (#42, 2021), though Jackson has missed 7 games this year to injury.

But they are 5-3 right now (after going 9-8 in 2021) so clearly they're doing better than the Rams.

Look at them THIS YEAR.

How have they used the first round picks they got from SF?

@AlbertBreer
The Dolphins got three first-rounders back in the deal the 49ers did with them to go up for Trey Lance. Miami traded all three of them.
• '21 pick packaged to trade up for Jaylen Waddle.
• '22 pick sent to Chiefs for Tyreek Hill.
• '23 pick sent to Broncos for Bradley Chubb.

Anyways, I get that we won't agree on the Dolphins, but I am willing to bet you they finish better than the Rams this and next year. You game?