[aeneas1]

Roethlisberger is a clear HOF QB. He had been top tier for years. So I can see why coaches still see him as such. I can also see why they weren’t as high on Wilson who had a great defense for years. That pick in the SB hurt him. My guess is that he got a lot of tier one votes last year, just not enough. Still, it’s not that big of a deal. A bigger deal is ranking Stafford over Goff. I don’t see that.

i agree, in fact i think both rivers and ben will eventually be fitted for yellow jackets, and like all qbs that have booked tremendous careers they deserve all of he credit in the world... but when it comes to lists that rank qbs for the upcoming season, i'm interested in seeing which qbs look primed to have the best season, not which active qbs have booked the best careers.

looking at rivers and roethlisberger for example, goff and the host of other young and promising qbs will have to play at a high level over the course of many, many years to match their careers, they're certainly not there yet, which i would think was a given.

but when it comes to the 2019 season, when it comes to who will be the top qbs this season, the elite qbs this season, it's hard for me to look at some of the big name seasoned vets that have booked great careers and think "yep, they'll be elite in 2019 as well, none of the younger guys will be better".

[aeneas1]

Yes, and when some of us or some writers have said things along those lines, we've been blasted for being idiots and too dumb to understand statistics.

All of this recent Goff talk started because someone had the nerve to write an article that Goff was 2nd tier with room to grow into an elite QB and some of us agreed.

i know i've called you and max too dumb and idiots on many occasions, frankly i'm a bit surprised that i haven't been banned given these personal attacks... and i also agree that this latest round of "goff talk" started simply because a blogger had the nerve to call goff 2nd tier, if someone disagreed with his take or conclusions it would have been nice if they simply pointed to where they thought he was wrong and mentioned why, alas.

[PARAM]

Brady, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Mahomes, Luck...arguably Ryan and Brees.

A coupla questions......playing better THE LAST 2 YEARS based on what? Mahomes has played 17 games the last 2 years. How can that qualify?

There are plenty of QB's playing at a higher level than Goff and cherry picking a particular two seasons to try and make it look like Goff has been better than he was isn't going to change his 2nd tier perception.

"Cherry picking the last 2 seasons to try and make it look like Goff has been better than he has...."? Really? Isn't that what the conversation is about, the last 2 years?

More questions:
Can you name the QBs who:
have had a QB rating over 100 the past 2 years? Hint: There are 3. (Goff is 1 of them)
have got their team to the postseason the past 2 years? Hint: There are 3. (Goff is 1 of them)
have had more passing yards than Jared Goff the past 2 years? Hint: There are 4
have had more TD passes than Jared Goff the past 2 years? Hint: There are 4

So there's the catagories.....QB rating (a measure of their performance), Postseason appearances (a measure of how successful they were), Passing yards (a measure of their production), TD passes (a measure of their production).....and Goff ranks in the top 5 in all of them. Yet YOU can find "plenty of QBs playing at a higher level than Goff"?

[/zn/]

A coupla questions......playing better THE LAST 2 YEARS based on what? Mahomes has played 17 games the last 2 years. How can that qualify?



"Cherry picking the last 2 seasons to try and make it look like Goff has been better than he has...."? Really? Isn't that what the conversation is about, the last 2 years?

More questions:
Can you name the QBs who:
have had a QB rating over 100 the past 2 years? Hint: There are 3. (Goff is 1 of them)
have got their team to the postseason the past 2 years? Hint: There are 3. (Goff is 1 of them)
have had more passing yards than Jared Goff the past 2 years? Hint: There are 4
have had more TD passes than Jared Goff the past 2 years? Hint: There are 4

So there's the catagories.....QB rating (a measure of their performance), Postseason appearances (a measure of how successful they were), Passing yards (a measure of their production), TD passes (a measure of their production).....and Goff ranks in the top 5 in all of them. Yet YOU can find "plenty of QBs playing at a higher level than Goff"?

Take any of the top qbs in their prime, give them this newer NFL environment where passing numbers are inflated, and put them on the Rams the last 2 years...with that OL, coach, and weapons. How many (again in their prime) do NOT do as well as Goff did? Any?

Is that a knock on Goff? Of course not. My line on him this entire discussion is that he's a third year qb who stumbled a bit, as most good qbs did in their 3rd year, and just needs to be more consistent. The numbers people throw around tend to be season averages and those are deceptive, because they leave out the fact that he was below average in 5 of his last 8 games. That kind of inconsistency doesn't bother me though because it's typical and my firm bet is that he grows out of it. BUT a full assessment (IMO) also does not ignore the inconsistency or paper it over with season-long averages.

Was it (the inconsistency) all on Goff? No...but then neither were the good games all on him either. AND in the midst of all that he's a very good qb who is getting better (and approaching tier one status).

Here's another 3rd year qb: Roethlisberger. (I've done a few others before...now it's BR's turn). Using a cut-off where a below average game is one with a qb rating of less than 80, BR had 8 such games in his 3rd year. (Goff had 6 of 19). In those 8 games, BR threw 5 TDs and 21 INTs. In his other 8 games, he threw 13 TDs and 2 INTs.

So anyway I see Goff as a good third year qb with some very clear strengths (he's a clutch qb, for one thing)...who just needs to become more consistent AND I also see him as a guy on his way toward precisely that.

....

[aeneas1]

Correction. Not only in his estimation, but in just about every reasonable and knowledgeable QB evaluator in existence.

hold on, let me see if i've got this right, you're saying that "every reasonable and knowledgeable qb evaluator in existence" thinks that at least the 7 guys my man mokler mentioned has played better than goff over the past two season? that's what you're saying?

well if that's the case you certainly have a lot of company, so stop hemming and hawing and tell us what qbs you think played better than goff over the past two years, don't let me down!

[aeneas1]

A coupla questions......playing better THE LAST 2 YEARS based on what? Mahomes has played 17 games the last 2 years. How can that qualify?

"Cherry picking the last 2 seasons to try and make it look like Goff has been better than he has...."? Really? Isn't that what the conversation is about, the last 2 years?

More questions:
Can you name the QBs who:
have had a QB rating over 100 the past 2 years? Hint: There are 3. (Goff is 1 of them)
have got their team to the postseason the past 2 years? Hint: There are 3. (Goff is 1 of them)
have had more passing yards than Jared Goff the past 2 years? Hint: There are 4
have had more TD passes than Jared Goff the past 2 years? Hint: There are 4

So there's the catagories.....QB rating (a measure of their performance), Postseason appearances (a measure of how successful they were), Passing yards (a measure of their production), TD passes (a measure of their production).....and Goff ranks in the top 5 in all of them. Yet YOU can find "plenty of QBs playing at a higher level than Goff"?

luck led the colts to a whopping 6 offensive points in the divisional round last year, against the league's 29th ranked defense in offensive points allowed - the chiefs ended up kicking the shit out of the colts 31-13 (the colts got 7 point from special teams) making it the widest postseason margin of victory of 2018... i know max likes postseason stats, so i thought i would offer that tidbit for consideration before he unveils his list!

[max]

i know i've called you and max too dumb and idiots on many occasions, frankly i'm a bit surprised that i haven't been banned given these personal attacks... and i also agree that this latest round of "goff talk" started simply because a blogger had the nerve to call goff 2nd tier, if someone disagreed with his take or conclusions it would have been nice if they simply pointed to where they thought he was wrong and mentioned why, alas.

Ya see, that’s why I find you so amusing. You come up with the most hysterical nonsense. No one is gonna ban you. You’d have to be taken seriously for that to happen. And your stuff is so off the wall.

You’re like the guy who puts his head under his friends car tire and then calls his friend stupid because he didn’t even know you were there.

[aeneas1]

Ya see, that’s why I find you so amusing. You come up with the most hysterical nonsense. No one is gonna ban you. You’d have to be taken seriously for that to happen. And your stuff is so off the wall.

You’re like the guy who puts his head under his friends car tire and then calls his friend stupid because he didn’t even know you were there.

don't you owe me a love note? still waiting.

[sloramfan]

A1 i'm glad someone agrees with me...

if goff isn't top 5 on your list, then to me your take is tainted... and i could really care less why...

naysayers always bring up past performances, and former glory... sorry guys i live in the now, and i know what i see...

sure he struggled against chicago, and was shut down in the SB, but to think goff is less that top 5?...

tell me 4 other guys you would trade goff for right now, so i can laff my ass off...

go rams

slo

[/zn/]

How soon until Goff progresses to the point where he is recognized as a tier one qb?

A year? Two?

...