[PARAM]

But you also offer blitz %. In '19, teams blitzed the Rams a lot more but their sack % went significantly down. That doesn't show to me that they were so bad at pass blocking that a QB's numbers would have to go down. <shrug>

Again, you're looking at numbers as the final determination. Let's try and put a "possible" 2 + 2 together. Teams blitzed 50% more. Sacks went down. His "numbers" got worse.

Now some might say, "Goff sucks. He's regressing. Who can we replace him with?"

Others might ask......could it be he was "rushed" but not sacked? Threw the ball early instead of on time? Threw the ball away instead of taking the sack? Threw picks instead of completions? Didn't have the time it takes to make a play successful?

Like I surmised, you're not going to get it. Maybe not because you can't understand. Maybe because you don't want to understand. In either case, reminds me of a couple of signs I saw just yesterday.

I can explain it to you, I can't understand it for you.
I have neither the time, nor the crayons to explain it to you.

You pick

[moklerman]

Again, you're looking at numbers as the final determination. Let's try and put a "possible" 2 + 2 together. Teams blitzed 50% more. Sacks went down. His "numbers" got worse.

Now some might say, "Goff sucks. He's regressing. Who can we replace him with?"

Others might ask......could it be he was "rushed" but not sacked? Threw the ball early instead of on time? Threw the ball away instead of taking the sack? Threw picks instead of completions? Didn't have the time it takes to make a play successful?

Like I surmised, you're not going to get it. Maybe not because you can't understand. Maybe because you don't want to understand. In either case, reminds me of a couple of signs I saw just yesterday.

I can explain it to you, I can't understand it for you.
I have neither the time, nor the crayons to explain it to you.

You pick

I have considered the repercussions though. I agree that sack % alone isn't going to definitively tell us the whole story. But, just because Goff and the Rams had to adjust their approach, throwing quicker routes, substituting short passing for more of the running game, etc., that doesn't illustrate why his numbers HAD to crash. That is the argument and I don't agree with it.

I also don't see enough evidence to conclude that the OL was even "damaged". They weren't as good as they were in '18 but damaged so badly that the QB's numbers had to sink to bottom quarter of the league?

Do you think that Goff's regression is due more to the OL or to him?

[VegasRam]

I would just point out Goff/McVay are 40-19, have made the playoff 2/3 years, are on track for 3/4, have had a winning record every year and have made a SB appearance.

I'm not nearly as definitively negative as most...

Me either. Partly how I am, partly cuz I've watched the Rams for 60 years, endured 90s and the 15 years of shitshows prior to McVay/Goff, and personally like Goff a lot. (So does Canuck btw - his was a heat of the moment thing ).

I will say this though, next time he hits two TOs, I'd sit him and put Wolford in.
This is (and has been) an issue, and I don't think he takes it as seriously as he should, imo.
INTs don't bother me per se (disliked Bradford for his constant checkdowns), and like his aggressiveness, but some of the throws are "WTF were you (not) looking at?" He can be accurate beyond belief, and boneheaded in the same series.

I also disagree with blaming McVay. So we'll see. I think the days of immobile pocket QBs are gone - look at the '16-'20 drafts, and we just have to live with it for the foreseeable future.

We are married to him for '21 and '22, so let's hope he gets the message.

[AvengerRam]

Do you think that Goff's regression is due more to the OL or to him?

Regression?

Goff's numbers this year are better in just about every meaningful category as compared to last year.

If you're comparing to 2017-18 then, yes... his numbers have gone down. Of course, in those years, he had a healthy Todd Gurley (until the end of 2018) and what most would agree was a better OL and deeper WR corps. Teams also had not yet adjusted to McVay's offense at that point.

So... do I see his career trajectory as one of "regression" at this point?

Not really, no.

What I see is a young (26 years old) QB who has shown a lot of promise, still has some significant weaknesses, still has to develop further, and still can.

[moklerman]

Regression?

Goff's numbers this year are better in just about every meaningful category as compared to last year.

If you're comparing to 2017-18 then, yes... his numbers have gone down. Of course, in those years, he had a healthy Todd Gurley (until the end of 2018) and what most would agree was a better OL and deeper WR corps. Teams also had not yet adjusted to McVay's offense at that point.

So... do I see his career trajectory as one of "regression" at this point?

Not really, no.

What I see is a young (26 years old) QB who has shown a lot of promise, still has some significant weaknesses, still has to develop further, and still can.

I agree that comparing him to the numbers from '18 is unfair but I still think he has regressed. He is turning the ball over when he shouldn't be and doesn't seem to have improved on his own shortcomings. He doesn't seem to have better pocket awareness, going through his progressions, going of script, etc. His baseline seems to have lowered instead of him cultivating the nuances that would make him a better overall QB.

I fully recognize that I might be viewing it negatively but I think there is plenty there to support the idea that he has actually regressed.

[Gareth]

I just want to add that his fumble last game bothered me much more than the interceptions. Quarterbacks throw interceptions and some of them look really bad. Remember Brady against the Rams last week?

But that fumble was inexcusable. Sometimes the quarterback get blindsided and fumbles. And sometimes the ball gets knocked out of their hand when they are in a passing motion. Understandable. But Goff is immobile. He rarely runs with the ball and for good reason. On those few occasions when he scrambles forward he has to know to get down when he is going to be hit. In this case he wasn’t even hit hard. Just a total bonehead play.

[ramsman34]

I would just point out Goff/McVay are 40-19, have made the playoff 2/3 years, are on track for 3/4, have had a winning record every year and have made a SB appearance.

I'm not nearly as definitively negative as most...

This. And, all Goff has to do is cut down on the TOs for the rest of the season. He has shown he and the team is good enough to beat anyone. Can he do this for the next 5-9 games? If he really focuses I would say yes. Then hopefully MCV can game plan and play call better than the opposition. This should include continuing the small ball game and running the ball effectively. Hopefully he gets the RBs more involved in the pass game AND Goff targets them. The D can hold it down.

We could face in the playoffs defensively: Giants, Saints, Bucs, Hawks, Cards. Frankly, none of those defenses scare me and I think Goff can have good success against them. The Saints might be the toughest. We would face them in the divisional. If everything went chalk and we “upset” the Giants.

The rest of the regular season will tell us a lot about the immediate and foreseeable future - especially about Goff. I can see him playing turnover free for a decent stretch. I think he has done it before, so can do it again. If we keep turnovers to 1 or less and have any occur in the first half/early in games, I like our chances to go anywhere from 10-6 to 12-4 to finish.

If Goff continues his apparent “decline” as documented by TOs, lack of TD/red zone production, and team losses. Those that don’t like him, thinks he sucks/is below average will get their collective wish. I just can’t see that happening before 2022. Unless they roll with Wolford, and Goff becomes the highest paid back up in league history. I can’t see them drafting a QB early in the next draft unless they love a guy who they believe is an immediate or fairly soon upgrade to Goff.

All JMO

[PARAM]

I have considered the repercussions though. I agree that sack % alone isn't going to definitively tell us the whole story. But, just because Goff and the Rams had to adjust their approach, throwing quicker routes, substituting short passing for more of the running game, etc., that doesn't illustrate why his numbers HAD to crash. That is the argument and I don't agree with it.

I also don't see enough evidence to conclude that the OL was even "damaged". They weren't as good as they were in '18 but damaged so badly that the QB's numbers had to sink to bottom quarter of the league?

Do you think that Goff's regression is due more to the OL or to him?

No. You're right Mokler. He sucks. He's gotten worse. There's no way we're gonna win shit with him at QB. If only he was like.......what's his name????

[max]

I would just point out Goff/McVay are 40-19, have made the playoff 2/3 years, are on track for 3/4, have had a winning record every year and have made a SB appearance.

I'm not nearly as definitively negative as most...

That's a fair assessment of the state of the Rams.

Now, just imagine if Goff didn't turn the ball over Sunday, and the Rams win (which I have no doubt they would have), what are we talking about? We are talking about another big win and here we cruising in first place, healthy and with our kicking issue solved.

That's why the main thing is just don't turn the ball over and we are golden.

[Gareth]

That's why the main thing is just don't turn the ball over and we are golden.

But isn’t that basically true of all teams? I think the team with less turnovers wins at least 80% of NFL games don’t they?

As Aeneas1 likes to say - fans are a funny group. Somehow we all think that our team is different. But turnovers decide wins and losses for all teams. And unless you are the Chiefs or Steelers now, or the Patriots of the last 20 years, most teams are very inconsistent. Some really good games and some really bad games. Other than the very elite the Rams have been the best of the rest in the McVay/Goff era. A pretty good place to be considering.