[max]

Your posts are interesting and of great worth.

You’re also entirely fallible, just like rest of us “idiots” here. Try to remember that.

From one idiot to another, its nice to hear you say that.

[Rams1PlateSince1976]

Which Mad Max movie was your favorite?
- The Road Warrior or
- Mad Max- Beyond Thunderdome

[Hacksaw]

RW

[/zn/]

So if i'm reading some of you guys right: Swap out Stafford for Goff on the 2020 team, everything else is the same, the results would be exactly the same?

I know some of you will want to expound on this but try to include yes or no in your answer...

IMO? There is no simple yes and no. It's all heavily affected by multiple factors.

The Goff of 2020 was struggling in some games (Stafford struggled in year 5 also, it's not rare). The OL got dominated in 4-5 games. The coach was openly being impatient with the qb, which is never good, and contributed to the qb struggling (IMO his worst coaching action since he's been a head coach). Communication had broken down (which coach admits) and there was a disconnect between coach and qb. Taken just in himself, Goff's struggles were apparent in some games just as he showed in others that he can still play (certainly Brad Holmes thinks so).

Stafford in 2020 was a 13 year vet. He did not handle heavy pressure in Detroit in 2020 that much different than Goff did in LA (actually they both had some good games under heavy pressure, and they also both didn't). One huge difference in Detroit was having to play with the 32nd ranked defense and a head coach who had lost the team, so the Rams would have been a better situation. Still, the Rams OL would still have been an issue in some games. But as a rule an experienced savvy vet like that is going to make a difference. Among the many differences he could have made is that since he knows more about quarterbacking than the young coach, the coach would have listened to him, which is always a good thing.

So Stafford's experience would probably have made a difference in a lot of areas. That's just my take.

In terms of who is "clueless." In all my years posting I have never met a single poster/fan who is right often enough to be able to make that judgment of others. That includes the ones I have admired the most over the years. I remember once in a debate years ago where I questioned whether a particular Rams player had what it takes to stick and play well. One poster took offense at that and went completely off the rails--at length. Multiple posts, name calling, you're an idiot, you don't know football, the whole 9 yards. It went on and on. The player he was defending and I was criticizing? Chris Givens. My judgment of the poster who did that? He was wrong on that one.

Anyway no one I have ever met on the Rams net has earned the position to judge others that way. That's absolutely nobody. And like all of us over the years I have met many, many smart, good, insightful Rams fans who have contributed more than their share to a lot of great discussions.

....

[snackdaddy]

I can now take off my homer hat for Goff. I defended him when he was a Ram. I also remember defending Bradford when he was a Ram. I'm pretty confident 2020 woulda been better for the Rams if Stafford were the starting QB all year instead of Goff. Would we beat the Packers with Stafford? I don't think so. Rogers and that offense was on fire against our defense with a hobbled Aaron Donald. But its possible we woulda won more games during the season and played someone else. Who knows? I do believe our chances at another Superbowl increased with the acquisition of Stafford.

[max]

I can now take off my homer hat for Goff. I defended him when he was a Ram. I also remember defending Bradford when he was a Ram. I'm pretty confident 2020 woulda been better for the Rams if Stafford were the starting QB all year instead of Goff. Would we beat the Packers with Stafford? I don't think so. Rogers and that offense was on fire against our defense with a hobbled Aaron Donald. But its possible we woulda won more games during the season and played someone else. Who knows? I do believe our chances at another Superbowl increased with the acquisition of Stafford.

Thats a noble take. I would like to believe I defended Goff beyond what he earned by his on-field performance the past two years.

In all honesty, I am a concerned about Stafford. In the times I've watched him in big games when it was time for him to make a big play when his team really needed it he didn't show me anything special. Now, maybe it circumstances beyond his control, but we will soon find out now that he is no longer in Detroit.

[snackdaddy]

Thats a noble take. I would like to believe I defended Goff beyond what he earned by his on-field performance the past two years.

In all honesty, I am a concerned about Stafford. In the times I've watched him in big games when it was time for him to make a big play when his team really needed it he didn't show me anything special. Now, maybe it circumstances beyond his control, but we will soon find out now that he is no longer in Detroit.

I never really paid much attention to Stafford over the years. My view of him was a good quarterback on a bad team. He certainly didn't do enough to raise the level of his teammates. But some teams are so bad no one can do that. Was that the case in Detroit? I can't tell you for sure. But I am confident he's an upgrade over Goff.

[max]

I never really paid much attention to Stafford over the years. My view of him was a good quarterback on a bad team. He certainly didn't do enough to raise the level of his teammates. But some teams are so bad no one can do that. Was that the case in Detroit? I can't tell you for sure. But I am confident he's an upgrade over Goff.

Yes. I agree with your 2 main points.

Stafford is an upgrade over Goff.

I can’t tell for sure if the Detroit environment was so bad it prohibited Stafford from winning.

It’s happened before where a great QB was held back by a bad organization. Fran Tarkenton always comes to mind. He never got to a playoff game until he was traded back from the Giants to the Vikes when he was 33 years old. Then he went to three SBs. Unfortunately, he lost them.

[Hacksaw]

Honorable mentions to never reach a Superbowl.

Jim Hart, John Brodie, Philip Rivers, Bernie Kosar, Randall Cunningham, Sonny Jurgensen, Warren Moon, Vinny Testaverde, Steve Bartkowski, Bobby Hebert, Dan Pastorini, Dan Fouts , etc , , , so Stafford is in good company. Let's hope he doesn't end his career on this list !!

[rams74]

I think the ability to accurately evaluate Stafford's career will benefit from his post-Lions' years, just as much as with Goff's post-Rams' years.

That was very much the case with Bradford, for me anyway. At the time Bradford left the Rams, I was not convinced he wasn't a good QB on a bad team. I thought it was still possible that he could be successful elsewhere, until he proved that that wasn't happening (his knee notwithstanding).

And I think we'll learn a lot about both Stafford and Goff that way, too.