[PARAM]

A fair question here is do the Rams win the game if Goff doesn't turn the ball over 3 times. I think the answer is yes.

The follow up question is are the turnovers a repeated problem with Goff. I think the answer is also yes.

In all the interviews I heard with McVay it sounds like he puts the turnover issue on the shoulders of Goff. McVay has made it clear that Goff is the one responsible for cause the turnovers and subsequently the losses.

All the statements about other QBs or other Rams players having issues are diversions to Goff being the single biggest reason for the turnovers. And they will cause losses.

McVay seemed very pissed in his presser. Put the turnovers entirely on Goff, which is 100% correct. We'll see how JG responds to this "new" approach.

[PARAM]

I'd like to know how you quantify your opinion.

Sack %
Ryan - '19(7.2%) '18(6.5%)
Rivers - '19(5.4%) '18(5.9%)
Goff - '19(3.4%) '18(5.4%)

Which one of those OL's doesn't seem as "damaged" as the others?

I don't know how ZN quantifies his opinion but I don't think sacks are the only measure of how good an OL is or isn't.

Look at the ypc rushing and completion percentage numbers (which can be skewed by pressure, which can be skewed by rushing success).

Atlanta/Ryan 4.5 in 2018, 3.8 in 2019 (-0.7), 69.4%/67.1% (-2.3%)
Chargers/Rivers 4.7 in 2018, 4.0 in 2019 (-0.7), 68.0%/66.0% (-2.0%)
Rams/Goff 4.9 in 2018, 3.7 in 2019 (-1.2), 64.9%/62.9% (-2.0%)

And I don't know how "they" measure sack percentage but I measure it by dividing sacks by pass attempts + sacks. Under those parameters....

Atlanta 6.5% in 2018 to 6.8% in 2019
Chargers 6.2% in 2018 to 5.4% in 2019
Rams 5.5% in 2018 to 3.4% in 2019

Sure Goff got sacked less but the rushing numbers took a serious nosedive.

[/zn/]

All the statements about other QBs or other Rams players having issues are diversions to Goff being the single biggest reason for the turnovers. And they will cause losses.

That's one approach. Focus on the 3 losses that matter in this discussion (Bills loss is on the defense) and then contend that those losses are entirely on Goff.

I think a more realistic view is that it is just not that simple.

For example why go empty set multiple times against Miami when your qb is clearly struggling with the Miami D and at the same time the run was right there. If nothing else settle the game down.

I prefer a more adaptable approach on offense, where you can respond to in-game struggles and get their feet back under them. I like that more than sticking with what isn't working and then talking after the game about it being all about execution.

Bearing in mind of course that this is a 7-4 team contending for the division and so the crisis is not as terrible as all that.

...

[/zn/]

I don't know how ZN quantifies his opinion but I don't think sacks are the only measure of how good an OL is or isn't.

Look at the ypc rushing and completion percentage numbers (which can be skewed by pressure, which can be skewed by rushing success).

Atlanta/Ryan 4.5 in 2018, 3.8 in 2019 (-0.7), 69.4%/67.1% (-2.3%)
Chargers/Rivers 4.7 in 2018, 4.0 in 2019 (-0.7), 68.0%/66.0% (-2.0%)
Rams/Goff 4.9 in 2018, 3.7 in 2019 (-1.2), 64.9%/62.9% (-2.0%)

And I don't know how "they" measure sack percentage but I measure it by dividing sacks by pass attempts + sacks. Under those parameters....

Atlanta 6.5% in 2018 to 6.8% in 2019
Chargers 6.2% in 2018 to 5.4% in 2019
Rams 5.5% in 2018 to 3.4% in 2019

Sure Goff got sacked less but the rushing numbers took a serious nosedive.

The OL was a mess in 2019, we knew that at the time. And sacks are not a measure of that. If you throw a lot (JG tied for first in attempts), get pressured a lot (8 games with 8 or more pressures), and yet are low in sacks...that's the qb keeping sacks down.

Heck some argue that he should have just taken more sacks.

In terms of knowing whether an OL is in trouble and not working, there's rarely a stat that just tells you that. For that, I just think the best guide is just to read print. The reporting on the team discussing injuries, continued poor performances, and OL issues in general which the team has to address in the post-season.

...

[PARAM]

Overall they seemed more diverse and crisp back then. It was only one game but they made those few plays that seem fewer and further between these days.

2017: 7.97 yds per att
2018: 8.36 yds per att
2019: 7.41 yds per att
2020: 7.49 yds per att

A drop of 0.48 yds per attempt between 2017 and 2020
A drop of 0.87 yds per attempt between 2018 and 2020.

Scheme?
Crispness?
QB?
OL?
All of the above?

[max]

That's one approach. Focus on the 3 losses that matter in this discussion (Bills loss is on the defense) and then contend that those losses are entirely on Goff.

I think a more realistic view is that it is just not that simple.

For example why go empty set multiple times against Miami when your qb is clearly struggling with the Miami D and at the same time the run was right there. If nothing else settle the game down.

I prefer a more adaptable approach on offense, where you can respond to in-game struggles and get their feet back under them. I like that more than sticking with what isn't working and then talking after the game about it being all about execution.

Bearing in mind of course that this is a 7-4 team contending for the division and so the crisis is not as terrible as all that.

...

Thanks for supporting my point. There are many who, for whatever reason, look to overcomplicate simple issues.

Goff is turning the ball over. That is a simple fact. Regardless of how well McVay is coaching, or whatever other factors are involved in playing the game, Goff has it in his power to drastically reduce his turnovers. Take the sack, slide, trust your receivers to get open and don't hold the ball. These are all simple things that Goff should be doing. McVay thinks he should be doing them, and so do I.

Sometimes things ARE as simple as they look.

My only point here is that Goff does have a turnover problem. Let's acknowledge that instead of playing games with numbers or anecdotal stories in an attempt to diminish or even dismiss the problem. Heck, some even go as far as trying to convince us that the sun is really the moon. I'm not a psychiatrist, so I don't ask me why they do it. I just don't let it distract me from the facts. The sun is not the moon, and Goff has a turnover problem.

[AvengerRam]

Here are some interesting numbers:

2017-2018: Jared Goff took 58 sacks, representing 5.3% of his pass attempts, but had only 27 turnovers (19 INTs, 8 fumbles lost)
2019-2020: Jared Goff has taken 37 sacks, representing only 3.5% of his pass attempts, but (in 4 fewer games) has already had 35 turnovers (26 INTs, 9 fumbles lost)

I would say that these numbers support the notion, as several have suggested, that Goff needs to worry more about protecting the ball, even if it means taking a sack every now and again. 3rd and 17 is better than giving the ball up.

[max]

Here are some interesting numbers:

2017-2018: Jared Goff took 58 sacks, representing 5.3% of his pass attempts, but had only 27 turnovers (19 INTs, 8 fumbles lost)
2019-2020: Jared Goff has taken 37 sacks, representing only 3.5% of his pass attempts, but (in 4 fewer games) has already had 35 turnovers (26 INTs, 9 fumbles lost)

I would say that these numbers support the notion, as several have suggested, that Goff needs to worry more about protecting the ball, even if it means taking a sack every now and again. 3rd and 17 is better than giving the ball up.

Excellent info.

I hope this thing isn't so much in Goff's head that it will affect his confidence. Next few games will be very interesting.

[PARAM]

Here are some interesting numbers:

2017-2018: Jared Goff took 58 sacks, representing 5.3% of his pass attempts, but had only 27 turnovers (19 INTs, 8 fumbles lost)
2019-2020: Jared Goff has taken 37 sacks, representing only 3.5% of his pass attempts, but (in 4 fewer games) has already had 35 turnovers (26 INTs, 9 fumbles lost)

I would say that these numbers support the notion, as several have suggested, that Goff needs to worry more about protecting the ball, even if it means taking a sack every now and again. 3rd and 17 is better than giving the ball up.

Good point. Or just throw the ball away and save the yardage. But please, please...don't run anymore!!!

[bremillard]

ok, to be clear:

63 turnovers by a qb in 48 games isn't unacceptable?
but 62 turnovers by a qb in 58 games is unacceptable?

or are you saying qb turnovers are acceptable if you win?

I am saying that if you throw the ball all over the yard the chances of interceptions and fumbles are greater and, yes, the end justifies the means.