[dieterbrock]

Enh. Strawman. There's no one in existence saying the things you're adamantly confronting.

Adapting from an Air Raid to a pro system does not reduce to 2 things.

And no one said those 2 things were "uniquely difficult athletic feats."

Honestly, you're fighting over nothing.

This particular sub-discussion began because I pointed out NO ONE said that taking snaps from center would be a problem for Goff.

Now you;re acting as if someone did say that. It's just wasted energy.

The theory of "Air Raid" QB's struggling has been eviscerated, its completely bogus.
You could step up and admit it, however we all know that wont happen.

All young QB's will struggle in their adjustment to the NFL. Period. Their success or failure in the NFL is a combination of their skill, their ability to process information and being coached effectively.

[Elvis]

I've always been a big coaching matters guy and the truth of it seems to be more and more evident every year...

[dieterbrock]

I've always been a big coaching matters guy and the truth of it seems to be more and more evident every year...

And that's the fact, Jack

[/zn/]

I've always been a big coaching matters guy and the truth of it seems to be more and more evident every year...

Yeah but when you put it that way there's no such thing as a "coaching doesn't matter". guy.

So that's usually a red herring in discussions like this.

I mean if coaching matters, so does college coaching, which will often determine how behind or advanced a player is when they arrive in the pros.

Not all rookies are the same. Some acclimate more quickly. Doesn't matter who the coach is. Some are on top of it and prepared to acclimate more quickly. Some aren't as. It's the same with offensive linemen, though with them there's no one particular college spread system that has a rep for putting them more behind. It's no accident I think that guys like Kromer do so well with OL from the great college pro-style OL factories (eg. Iowa, Wisconsin).

Back to qbs, since there are multiple. reasons why the Air Raid is less compatible with pro style play, it's more than fair to pay attention to its effect. Some of the best analysts in the biz have pointed this out. One place it shows up is assessment. It took a while for pro personnel people to figure out how to assess spread and also Air Raid qbs. By the time 2016 rolled around I was completely confident that Goff was a good pick and that the Rams knew what they were getting, though for a long time people complained that it was harder to judge the talent of Air Raid qbs particularly. So there were advances there too.

And of course pro coaching is part of this. I;m on one side of this debate and I have said that myself. One change is that coaches are now more open to adapting to the player along with fitting the player into the pro system. No one in any version of this discussion anywhere argues against that, that I have seen.

So the issue is open to debate and discussion. My own view is, when the first college Air Raid qb plays well as a rookie, I will go "hey look...it's the first one!" And that might happen someday for all we know.

...

[Elvis]

Yeah but when you put it that way there's no such thing as a "coaching doesn't matter". guy.

So that's usually a red herring in discussions like this.

And this is a straw man.

I'm not saying, and have never said, coaching is the only thing that matters.

"Coaching matters," is shorthand for coaching is really important, probably the single biggest factor in success in the NFL.

I think that's true, more true now than it's ever been.

Agree, disagree, but making a strawman out of it only cheapens the conversation, and often, predictably leads us astray...

[AvengerRam]

If I eat a delicious filet mignon, I recognize that it is likely a choice cut of beef that was prepared by a highly-skilled chef.

A great chef can't make filet mignon out of ground chuck.

A bad chef can make filet mignon taste like old leather.

If I compliment the chef, I need not understate the quality of the beef.

If I compliment the quality of the beef, it does not mean I don't appreciate the efforts of the chef.

I would think we can all understand this.

Unless you're a vegan... in which case substitute tofu for filet mignon.

[aeneas1]

Yeah but when you put it that way there's no such thing as a "coaching doesn't matter". guy. So that's usually a red herring in discussions like this.

[HAL 9000]

of course when it comes to guys who throw from under center the most, (goff, ryan, jimmy g-spot, etc.) it has nothing to do with their superior ability to handle that task, instead it simply reflects the play-action heavy schemes they play in.

So what your saying is, it is the system. LOL

[/zn/]

I'm not saying, and have never said, coaching is the only thing that matters.

"Coaching matters," is shorthand for coaching is really important, probably the single biggest factor in success in the NFL.

Yeah I know.

And my point is, I don't think there's anyone who thinks or says otherwise.

When it comes to this particular discussion though I think it's also important to stress that other parts of the equation include both the individual player and the college system in question.

All that certainly matters with offensive linemen. That's one reason OL have gone from traditionally being the safest picks in the first round to being recently much iffier. They're just harder to assess now.

(Seen in that light landing Noteboom is an even bigger coup .)

People are just wrangling over the extent to which one factor matters and to what extent.

It's a funny discussion though. It started with me saying no one said that not playing under center in college meant that Goff couldn't in the pros. I just do not recall anyone saying that (maybe they did on LA radio?) The idea there being that that one factor in itself is just not crucial. It then for some reason led to people arguing that playing under center or not is just not that crucial. So I find myself in this odd place where people are agreeing with my original claim but acting like they're disagreeing with something (?).

I don't know why the Air Raid issue sometimes causes such conflict. It shouldn't. It's just a thing to discuss.


....

[dieterbrock]

Back to qbs, since there are multiple. reasons why the Air Raid is less compatible with pro style play, it's more than fair to pay attention to its effect.

...

Yup, Goff and Mahomes are sure showing those ill effects