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 by /zn/
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   6758  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Hall of Fame

rams74 wrote:What about all those hail mary's that Aaron Rodgers has completed? Those didn't happen in games the Packers were already winning. He's had more than one comeback win.


As of 2017 AR's team had won 26% of the time in comeback situations. It's probably more now since he did it this year too.

PFR lists him as having 13 4th q comebacks.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... r=RodgAa00

 by dieterbrock
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   11512  
 Joined:  Mar 31 2015
United States of America   New Jersey
Hall of Fame

rams74 wrote:What about all those hail mary's that Aaron Rodgers has completed? Those didn't happen in games the Packers were already winning. He's had more than one comeback win. Multiple have come on the last play of the game. I don't know why we're debating Aaron Rodgers.

We aren't debating Aaron Rodgers. He's the best there is.
This 4th Q comeback stuff is farcical and Rodgers proves that.
His record against teams with winning records after trailing in the 4th Q was like 0-35 at one point, which goes to show how irrelevant it is.
BTW, on those hail Mary's, 1) was against the Giants at the end of the 1st half, 2) was against a 2-7 Detroit Lions team and the 3) was a playoff game against Kurt Warner that he lost.

 by dieterbrock
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   11512  
 Joined:  Mar 31 2015
United States of America   New Jersey
Hall of Fame

rams74 wrote:What about all those hail mary's that Aaron Rodgers has completed? Those didn't happen in games the Packers were already winning. He's had more than one comeback win. Multiple have come on the last play of the game. I don't know why we're debating Aaron Rodgers.

We aren't debating Aaron Rodgers. He's the best there is.
This 4th Q comeback stuff is farcical and Rodgers proves that.
His record against teams with winning records after trailing in the 4th Q was like 0-35 at one point, which goes to show how irrelevant it is.
BTW, on those hail Mary's, 1) was against the Giants at the end of the 1st half, 2) was against a 2-7 Detroit Lions team and the 3) was a playoff game against Kurt Warner that he lost.

 by PARAM
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   12186  
 Joined:  Jul 15 2015
Barbados   Just far enough North of Philadelphia
Hall of Fame

dieterbrock wrote:We aren't debating Aaron Rodgers. He's the best there is.



True. The only guy with a career QB rating north of 99.9.

The 4th quarter comeback stats should fall in somewhere between QB wins and consecutive starts. Surrounding cast and opponent have a huge influence on most QB numbers.

 by rams74
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   1460  
 Joined:  Nov 19 2015
Italy   Glendale, Arizona
Pro Bowl

dieterbrock wrote:We aren't debating Aaron Rodgers. He's the best there is.
This 4th Q comeback stuff is farcical and Rodgers proves that.
His record against teams with winning records after trailing in the 4th Q was like 0-35 at one point, which goes to show how irrelevant it is.
BTW, on those hail Mary's, 1) was against the Giants at the end of the 1st half, 2) was against a 2-7 Detroit Lions team and the 3) was a playoff game against Kurt Warner that he lost.


Cool. Agreed that the 4th Q comeback stuff is absurd.

(And FWIW, Rodgers also beat the Bears with a last minute bomb in 2014, week 17. Wasn't the last play, and not technically a hail mary, maybe, but close enough.)

 by /zn/
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   6758  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Hall of Fame

This 4th Q comeback stuff is farcical and Rodgers proves that.
rams74 wrote:Cool. Agreed that the 4th Q comeback stuff is absurd.


So because AR was not good in the 4th quarter against winning teams, THAT proves the 4th q comeback gene is irrelevant?

?

How about this instead.

Brady proves it's relevant.

Rodgers's team would have done a lot better and even been in more superbowls if he did have a better record at that.

AND no one on the face of the earth, with the exception of imaginary posters dreamed up by some, ever said it was the most important trait and that a qb was not great unless they had it. That's just classic straw man stuff.

It is one of the traits you want in a qb, and it will be good if Goff has it (compare Brady's and Rodgers's post-season histories if you want to know one reason why), but you can be a great qb without it--and no one real ever said otherwise.

Either way I expect these kinds of "at war with straw men" kind of arguments to disappear on the weeks where the Rams win a game or 2 that way. They certainly didn't show up the times the Rams won a 4 q comeback with Goff.

And if you look at a post above, when asked what separates Goff from the first tier of NFL qbs right now, the NFL execs and scouts and coaches Sando talked to "All agreed that next frontier for Goff is demonstrating over time an ability to thrive on third down and when the Rams are trailing." More from the NFL people Sando talked to: "I have not seen enough come-from-behind work. It is a process. You work on that area, you have a chance to become a" first tier qb.

So NFL people, naturally, count this. To me those quotes from NFL people just trump anything anyone is saying different.

...

 by PARAM
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   12186  
 Joined:  Jul 15 2015
Barbados   Just far enough North of Philadelphia
Hall of Fame

I am a firm believer in the 4th quarter comeback gene. And I think that gene is nurtured by a good receiving corp, a good run game, a good offensive system and a good defense. Is it important? If you're down in the 4th it's very important. As important as a good receiving corp, good run game, good offensive system and a good defense. Is it truly a "gene"? Not in my opinion. Show me a QB with the 4th quarter gene and I'll show you a QB with a 1st quarter gene and 2nd quarter gene and 3rd quarter gene.

 by dieterbrock
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   11512  
 Joined:  Mar 31 2015
United States of America   New Jersey
Hall of Fame

/zn/ wrote:AND no one on the face of the earth, with the exception of imaginary posters dreamed up by some, ever said it was the most important trait and that a qb was not great unless they had it. That's just classic straw man stuff.
...

There he goes again....
You are truly a classic case.
Creating imaginary straw men to disagree with, and call THEM out as straw men.
Too funny.

No, I have an issue with the ascertion that Goff “needs to get better at it”
That’s a joke. He’s got 3 of them already this year.

It’s a team game a the 4th Q comeback is a team victory. Brady doesn’t get his if the defense doesn’t make the stops they make and when his defense faltered, Eli Manning got the 4th q comeback.
It’s a team game.
Kupp catches the ball in his mitts, they beat Seattle last year.
If the Rams D doesn’t collapse after Foles came in with Wentz out and the Rams re-took the lead, it’s a 4th Q comeback.
If the defense doesn’t let the Saints walk down the field after the historic comeback to tie the game, who knows what happens
Team game.

 by dieterbrock
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   11512  
 Joined:  Mar 31 2015
United States of America   New Jersey
Hall of Fame

PARAM wrote:I am a firm believer in the 4th quarter comeback gene. And I think that gene is nurtured by a good receiving corp, a good run game, a good offensive system and a good defense. Is it important? If you're down in the 4th it's very important. As important as a good receiving corp, good run game, good offensive system and a good defense. Is it truly a "gene"? Not in my opinion. Show me a QB with the 4th quarter gene and I'll show you a QB with a 1st quarter gene and 2nd quarter gene and 3rd quarter gene.

Brady won 2 Superbowls with 4th Q comebacks because the opponent failed to execute. Seattle just runs the ball, they win. Instead, Brady gets the comeback. If Atlanta just runs a little clock or god forbid scores a point, they win.

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129 posts Mar 29 2024