by max 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 5714 Joined: Jun 01 2015 Sarasota, FL Hall of Fame Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #1 TOPIC AUTHOR This is from FiveThirtyEight. Pretty interesting too. The link it better.Good argument on Gurley being the beneficiary, but this begs another question. Is this ALL caused by McVay? How much credit needs to go to Goff for forcing the 6 man boxes? Would Gurley still get that favorable defense with any QB?https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/to ... ry-twitterTodd Gurley Is In The Right System At The Right TimeJosh Hermsmeyer2:41 PMOct. 19, 2018, atTodd Gurley is off to one of the hottest starts in NFL history. After rushing for a league-leading 623 yards and nine touchdowns — plus 247 receiving yards and two more TDs through the air — Gurley has accumulated the fifth-most adjusted yards1 from scrimmage through six games since the 1970 AFL-NFL merger, joining former Rams greats Marshall Faulk and Eric Dickerson near the top of the list. The Rams are 6-0 on the young season, and Gurley’s breakneck performance is often cited as a catalyst for the team’s success. He has even been in the early discussion for league MVP.But is that really warranted? Does the Rams offense truly run through Gurley, or should we be giving head coach Sean McVay more of the credit?One approach to answering that question is to look at how McVay’s scheme affects Gurley’s performance. So far this year, the Rams have run nearly every offensive play from what is called the “11” personnel: one running back, one tight end and three wide receivers. According to charting from Sports Info Solutions, the Rams have run 95 percent of their offensive plays from this package — 32 percentage points more than the league average of 63 percent. And while heavy utilization of three wide receiver looks isn’t new to McVay — the Rams ran 81 percent of their plays out of “11” in 2017 — 2018 is a massive outlier. McVay appears to have concluded that the deception afforded the offense by lining up with the same personnel package each play is greater than the constraints it places on his play calling.The Rams rarely stray from their favorite formationNFL teams by the share of their plays run in each of the three most popular offensive formations, 2018Offensive formationTeam 11: ONE RB, ONE TE, three WRs 12: ONE RB, TWO TEs, TWO WRs 21: Two RBs, one TE, two WRsL.A. Rams 95% 2% 0%Green Bay 77 14 1Miami 77 8 1Seattle 77 9 5Indianapolis 72 18 3Cleveland 70 16 1Jacksonville 70 10 6Cincinnati 69 20 2Washington 69 17 0Oakland 68 13 7N.Y. Giants 67 23 4Tampa Bay 67 14 7Arizona 66 19 4Denver 66 13 11Buffalo 64 20 10Chicago 64 20 10Houston 62 34 0Minnesota 62 23 9Detroit 61 10 5Pittsburgh 61 15 7New Orleans 60 13 12Carolina 59 14 8Kansas City 59 22 9Dallas 57 18 6Atlanta 56 14 13L.A. Chargers 56 17 10Philadelphia 54 36 0Tennessee 53 35 2N.Y. Jets 52 24 0New England 49 9 28Baltimore 48 26 1San Francisco 40 8 41Average 63 17 7Source: Sports Info SolutionsThere are other benefits from repeatedly giving the opponent the same look, however, and they affect Gurley’s performance in important ways. When a team can spread a defense out laterally across the field, it opens up the middle and makes running the ball easier. Running backs with at least 20 carries averaged 4.75 yards per carry against six men in the box from 2016 to 2018.2 That’s well over half a yard higher than the average of 4.09 yards per carry when that same group of runners faced seven defenders near the line of scrimmage. Against eight-man fronts, the average gain falls to 3.59. Facing a loaded box makes running much more difficult.McVay is no rube. He likely realizes that if you are going to run in the NFL, you should do so against a light box. Even better, this is something he can control. An offense exerts quite a bit of influence over how many box defenders it faces by how many wide receivers it chooses to deploy. When offenses play three wideouts, NFL defensive coordinators will typically match body type with body type and send a nickel defensive back in to cover the third receiver, leaving six defenders in the box.As a consequence, Gurley has faced more six-man fronts on his carries than any other running back in football since McVay took over as head coach of the Rams. It has paid serious dividends. So far this season, Gurley is crushing it against those fronts, averaging 5.5 yards per carry. But against a neutral seven-man front, he’s been below league average at just 3.7 yards per attempt.Gurley thrives when there are fewer defendersNumber of carries and yards per carry against a standard defense of six men in the box, 2017-18Player No. of carries yards per carryTodd Gurley 202 5.12Kareem Hunt 113 4.91Lamar Miller 112 4.42LeVeon Bell 103 4.45Melvin Gordon 101 4.73Source: Sports Info SolutionsGurley is basically the same back he has always been since he came into the league. If you use broken and missed tackles as a proxy for talent,3 you can see that Gurley makes defenders miss when running against six-man fronts far less than expected. He thrives, like most running backs, when he’s allowed to hit open holes and get to the second level relatively unscathed.So Gurley is the beneficiary, not the proximate cause, of the Rams’ offensive resurgence under McVay. Gurley has been put in a position to succeed and has taken full advantage. Crucially, while the Rams have benefited from being smart in their offensive schemes and decision-making, it’s likely that many teams could emulate them and achieve similar success on the ground. Spreading a defense out and running against a light front is not a particularly novel idea. The commitment shown by running 95 percent of your plays out of a formation that encourages that result, however, is quite innovative. McVay pushes winning edges better than any coach in the NFL — and he, not his running back, is the principal reason that the Rams are currently the toast of the league.Check out our latest NFL predictions. ~ max ~“The consciousness of good intentions disdains ambiguity.” - Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers by Kid Charlamagne 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 533 Joined: Aug 25 2016 LA Coliseum Veteran Re: Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #2 This seems pretty simple, why are the rams the only ones doing it? by aeneas1 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 16894 Joined: Sep 13 2015 Norcal Hall of Fame Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #3 good stuff!i will say that a lot of folks who report on the rams use of 11-personnel act as if the 11 is an offensive alignment, used play after play, as opposed to a personnel package consisting of 1 rb, 1 te and 3 wr... the other assumption seems to be that because the 11 employs 3 wide receivers, it forces defenses to spread themselves thin in the middle, by having to cover multiple receivers split wide.neither is accurate when describing the rams... in fact i'd like to see a piece that plots the ridiculous number of different alignments the rams get from their 11-personnel scheme... for example, from the 11 the rams will align gurley wide left or right, outside of the numbers, and put a te in the slot, giving the look of a 00 (0 rb, 0 te, 5 wr).here's an example of what i'm talking about, from 538:538 wrote:There are other benefits from repeatedly giving the opponent the same look, however, and they affect Gurley’s performance in important ways. When a team can spread a defense out laterally across the field, it opens up the middle and makes running the ball easier.538 wrote:McVay appears to have concluded that the deception afforded the offense by lining up with the same personnel package each play is greater than the constraints it places on his play calling.do these two examples look like a defense spread thin because of 11-personnel, by having to cover receivers split wide? by Rams1PlateSince1976 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 2188 Joined: Oct 12 2016 LA Coliseum Pro Bowl Re: Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #4 We Not Me. Without a tailback like Gurley McVay would be much more challenged in running so much 11..Also tough to run 11 without good wide-outs. I expect to see more Tight End action. (It is probably coming. McVay has a lot of play book left.) Also interesting that McVay backed off use of the screen pass lately. He is changing his pattern to confound Defensive coordinators but those screens still remain very much alive in the playbook, by Extremes 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 121 Joined: Apr 20 2018 LA Practice Squad Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #5 What should be the real question is where the fuck are our Tight Ends...? We wasted a second round pick on Gerald Everett... by Rams1PlateSince1976 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 2188 Joined: Oct 12 2016 LA Coliseum Pro Bowl Re: Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #6 Patience. Haven't needed them yet. by aeneas1 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 16894 Joined: Sep 13 2015 Norcal Hall of Fame Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #7 RamsFanSince82, dieterbrock liked this post Rams1PlateSince1976 wrote:Patience. Haven't needed them yet.nope... and, again, mcvay's rep for loving to throw to tight ends was way overblown, reed was a friggin' wr for all intents and purposes... anyway, whatever makes this offense even more potent i'm all in on, altho cutting into woods/cooks/kupp/gurley targets just for the sake of showing that you're involving a tight end doesn't make too much sense to me at the moment, only so many targets to go around. 2 Reply 1 / 1 Display: All posts1 day7 days2 weeks1 month3 months6 months1 year Sort by: AuthorPost timeSubject Sort by: AscendingDescending Jump to: Forum Rams/NFL Other Sports Rams Fans United Q&A's Board Business 7 posts Apr 28 2025 FOLLOW US @RAMSFANSUNITED Who liked this post
by Kid Charlamagne 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 533 Joined: Aug 25 2016 LA Coliseum Veteran Re: Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #2 This seems pretty simple, why are the rams the only ones doing it? by aeneas1 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 16894 Joined: Sep 13 2015 Norcal Hall of Fame Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #3 good stuff!i will say that a lot of folks who report on the rams use of 11-personnel act as if the 11 is an offensive alignment, used play after play, as opposed to a personnel package consisting of 1 rb, 1 te and 3 wr... the other assumption seems to be that because the 11 employs 3 wide receivers, it forces defenses to spread themselves thin in the middle, by having to cover multiple receivers split wide.neither is accurate when describing the rams... in fact i'd like to see a piece that plots the ridiculous number of different alignments the rams get from their 11-personnel scheme... for example, from the 11 the rams will align gurley wide left or right, outside of the numbers, and put a te in the slot, giving the look of a 00 (0 rb, 0 te, 5 wr).here's an example of what i'm talking about, from 538:538 wrote:There are other benefits from repeatedly giving the opponent the same look, however, and they affect Gurley’s performance in important ways. When a team can spread a defense out laterally across the field, it opens up the middle and makes running the ball easier.538 wrote:McVay appears to have concluded that the deception afforded the offense by lining up with the same personnel package each play is greater than the constraints it places on his play calling.do these two examples look like a defense spread thin because of 11-personnel, by having to cover receivers split wide? by Rams1PlateSince1976 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 2188 Joined: Oct 12 2016 LA Coliseum Pro Bowl Re: Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #4 We Not Me. Without a tailback like Gurley McVay would be much more challenged in running so much 11..Also tough to run 11 without good wide-outs. I expect to see more Tight End action. (It is probably coming. McVay has a lot of play book left.) Also interesting that McVay backed off use of the screen pass lately. He is changing his pattern to confound Defensive coordinators but those screens still remain very much alive in the playbook, by Extremes 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 121 Joined: Apr 20 2018 LA Practice Squad Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #5 What should be the real question is where the fuck are our Tight Ends...? We wasted a second round pick on Gerald Everett... by Rams1PlateSince1976 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 2188 Joined: Oct 12 2016 LA Coliseum Pro Bowl Re: Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #6 Patience. Haven't needed them yet. by aeneas1 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 16894 Joined: Sep 13 2015 Norcal Hall of Fame Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #7 RamsFanSince82, dieterbrock liked this post Rams1PlateSince1976 wrote:Patience. Haven't needed them yet.nope... and, again, mcvay's rep for loving to throw to tight ends was way overblown, reed was a friggin' wr for all intents and purposes... anyway, whatever makes this offense even more potent i'm all in on, altho cutting into woods/cooks/kupp/gurley targets just for the sake of showing that you're involving a tight end doesn't make too much sense to me at the moment, only so many targets to go around. 2 Reply 1 / 1 Display: All posts1 day7 days2 weeks1 month3 months6 months1 year Sort by: AuthorPost timeSubject Sort by: AscendingDescending Jump to: Forum Rams/NFL Other Sports Rams Fans United Q&A's Board Business 7 posts Apr 28 2025
by aeneas1 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 16894 Joined: Sep 13 2015 Norcal Hall of Fame Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #3 good stuff!i will say that a lot of folks who report on the rams use of 11-personnel act as if the 11 is an offensive alignment, used play after play, as opposed to a personnel package consisting of 1 rb, 1 te and 3 wr... the other assumption seems to be that because the 11 employs 3 wide receivers, it forces defenses to spread themselves thin in the middle, by having to cover multiple receivers split wide.neither is accurate when describing the rams... in fact i'd like to see a piece that plots the ridiculous number of different alignments the rams get from their 11-personnel scheme... for example, from the 11 the rams will align gurley wide left or right, outside of the numbers, and put a te in the slot, giving the look of a 00 (0 rb, 0 te, 5 wr).here's an example of what i'm talking about, from 538:538 wrote:There are other benefits from repeatedly giving the opponent the same look, however, and they affect Gurley’s performance in important ways. When a team can spread a defense out laterally across the field, it opens up the middle and makes running the ball easier.538 wrote:McVay appears to have concluded that the deception afforded the offense by lining up with the same personnel package each play is greater than the constraints it places on his play calling.do these two examples look like a defense spread thin because of 11-personnel, by having to cover receivers split wide? by Rams1PlateSince1976 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 2188 Joined: Oct 12 2016 LA Coliseum Pro Bowl Re: Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #4 We Not Me. Without a tailback like Gurley McVay would be much more challenged in running so much 11..Also tough to run 11 without good wide-outs. I expect to see more Tight End action. (It is probably coming. McVay has a lot of play book left.) Also interesting that McVay backed off use of the screen pass lately. He is changing his pattern to confound Defensive coordinators but those screens still remain very much alive in the playbook, by Extremes 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 121 Joined: Apr 20 2018 LA Practice Squad Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #5 What should be the real question is where the fuck are our Tight Ends...? We wasted a second round pick on Gerald Everett... by Rams1PlateSince1976 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 2188 Joined: Oct 12 2016 LA Coliseum Pro Bowl Re: Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #6 Patience. Haven't needed them yet. by aeneas1 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 16894 Joined: Sep 13 2015 Norcal Hall of Fame Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #7 RamsFanSince82, dieterbrock liked this post Rams1PlateSince1976 wrote:Patience. Haven't needed them yet.nope... and, again, mcvay's rep for loving to throw to tight ends was way overblown, reed was a friggin' wr for all intents and purposes... anyway, whatever makes this offense even more potent i'm all in on, altho cutting into woods/cooks/kupp/gurley targets just for the sake of showing that you're involving a tight end doesn't make too much sense to me at the moment, only so many targets to go around. 2 Reply 1 / 1 Display: All posts1 day7 days2 weeks1 month3 months6 months1 year Sort by: AuthorPost timeSubject Sort by: AscendingDescending Jump to: Forum Rams/NFL Other Sports Rams Fans United Q&A's Board Business 7 posts Apr 28 2025
by Rams1PlateSince1976 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 2188 Joined: Oct 12 2016 LA Coliseum Pro Bowl Re: Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #4 We Not Me. Without a tailback like Gurley McVay would be much more challenged in running so much 11..Also tough to run 11 without good wide-outs. I expect to see more Tight End action. (It is probably coming. McVay has a lot of play book left.) Also interesting that McVay backed off use of the screen pass lately. He is changing his pattern to confound Defensive coordinators but those screens still remain very much alive in the playbook, by Extremes 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 121 Joined: Apr 20 2018 LA Practice Squad Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #5 What should be the real question is where the fuck are our Tight Ends...? We wasted a second round pick on Gerald Everett... by Rams1PlateSince1976 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 2188 Joined: Oct 12 2016 LA Coliseum Pro Bowl Re: Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #6 Patience. Haven't needed them yet. by aeneas1 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 16894 Joined: Sep 13 2015 Norcal Hall of Fame Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #7 RamsFanSince82, dieterbrock liked this post Rams1PlateSince1976 wrote:Patience. Haven't needed them yet.nope... and, again, mcvay's rep for loving to throw to tight ends was way overblown, reed was a friggin' wr for all intents and purposes... anyway, whatever makes this offense even more potent i'm all in on, altho cutting into woods/cooks/kupp/gurley targets just for the sake of showing that you're involving a tight end doesn't make too much sense to me at the moment, only so many targets to go around. 2 Reply 1 / 1 Display: All posts1 day7 days2 weeks1 month3 months6 months1 year Sort by: AuthorPost timeSubject Sort by: AscendingDescending Jump to: Forum Rams/NFL Other Sports Rams Fans United Q&A's Board Business 7 posts Apr 28 2025
by Extremes 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 121 Joined: Apr 20 2018 LA Practice Squad Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #5 What should be the real question is where the fuck are our Tight Ends...? We wasted a second round pick on Gerald Everett... by Rams1PlateSince1976 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 2188 Joined: Oct 12 2016 LA Coliseum Pro Bowl Re: Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #6 Patience. Haven't needed them yet. by aeneas1 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 16894 Joined: Sep 13 2015 Norcal Hall of Fame Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #7 RamsFanSince82, dieterbrock liked this post Rams1PlateSince1976 wrote:Patience. Haven't needed them yet.nope... and, again, mcvay's rep for loving to throw to tight ends was way overblown, reed was a friggin' wr for all intents and purposes... anyway, whatever makes this offense even more potent i'm all in on, altho cutting into woods/cooks/kupp/gurley targets just for the sake of showing that you're involving a tight end doesn't make too much sense to me at the moment, only so many targets to go around. 2 Reply 1 / 1 Display: All posts1 day7 days2 weeks1 month3 months6 months1 year Sort by: AuthorPost timeSubject Sort by: AscendingDescending Jump to: Forum Rams/NFL Other Sports Rams Fans United Q&A's Board Business 7 posts Apr 28 2025
by Rams1PlateSince1976 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 2188 Joined: Oct 12 2016 LA Coliseum Pro Bowl Re: Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #6 Patience. Haven't needed them yet. by aeneas1 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 16894 Joined: Sep 13 2015 Norcal Hall of Fame Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #7 RamsFanSince82, dieterbrock liked this post Rams1PlateSince1976 wrote:Patience. Haven't needed them yet.nope... and, again, mcvay's rep for loving to throw to tight ends was way overblown, reed was a friggin' wr for all intents and purposes... anyway, whatever makes this offense even more potent i'm all in on, altho cutting into woods/cooks/kupp/gurley targets just for the sake of showing that you're involving a tight end doesn't make too much sense to me at the moment, only so many targets to go around. 2 Reply 1 / 1 Display: All posts1 day7 days2 weeks1 month3 months6 months1 year Sort by: AuthorPost timeSubject Sort by: AscendingDescending Jump to: Forum Rams/NFL Other Sports Rams Fans United Q&A's Board Business 7 posts Apr 28 2025
by aeneas1 6 years 6 months ago Total posts: 16894 Joined: Sep 13 2015 Norcal Hall of Fame Another take on McVay's heavy use of 11 Personnel POST #7 RamsFanSince82, dieterbrock liked this post Rams1PlateSince1976 wrote:Patience. Haven't needed them yet.nope... and, again, mcvay's rep for loving to throw to tight ends was way overblown, reed was a friggin' wr for all intents and purposes... anyway, whatever makes this offense even more potent i'm all in on, altho cutting into woods/cooks/kupp/gurley targets just for the sake of showing that you're involving a tight end doesn't make too much sense to me at the moment, only so many targets to go around. 2 Reply 1 / 1 Display: All posts1 day7 days2 weeks1 month3 months6 months1 year Sort by: AuthorPost timeSubject Sort by: AscendingDescending Jump to: Forum Rams/NFL Other Sports Rams Fans United Q&A's Board Business