19 posts
  • 2 / 2
  • 1
  • 2
 by actionjack
3 weeks 5 days ago
 Total posts:   4074  
 Joined:  May 19 2016
United States of America   Sactown
Superstar

Dare wrote:This is just another example of how McVay used Goff as his whipping boy blaming him for everything instead of working with the guy and playing to his strengths.

The definitive proof is that both Stafford's and Goff's stats since the trade has been eerily similar since the trade. Proof of what I've always contended. Goff wasn't McVay's "boy" so he sabotaged Goff on every damn snap. Holding him in the huddle until the last 15 seconds then blaming Goff for not being able to read. Yet Goff reads just fine now in Detroit.

You look at McVay's offense now, and Jared would be a perfect fit. In other words, had McVay designed his offense to play to Goff's strength there wouldn't have been a need for the trade.

This is why it's highly likely that McVay would rather ride Stafford until that horse can't run any more than shop around for another veteran QB that he doesn't have to develop. If a good QB becomes available in 2025 the Rams might tell Matt to retire and make a run at signing the new QB. I would rather they trade up next year for someone like Carson Beck or if Riley Leonard drops to them to grab him if he does. Leonard is a sneaky-good QB prospect with a strong arm and good accuracy at all levels. He's a pure pocket passer like Stafford with a bit of a gunslinger in his mentality. At best Leonard projects as a mid to lower first round pick. Right now he's a second round grade but the Rams don't have a second round pick next year.

The Rams got lucky and it worked out for both the Lions and Rams. But going into the future, Stafford must be viewed as damaged goods. IMO his ability to play injury free this season will determine if he's the starter in 2025. It's why I believe Jimmy G is on the roster. He would be a good bridge QB in 2025 should they decide to move on from Stafford with a rookie. Ram fans laugh at Jimmy G. but in this current offense, he's a perfect fit. The problem with Jimmy is he seems to go brain-dead at times making bad decisions. That said so does Stafford. Jimmy's strength is attacking the intermediate zone and that's exactly what McVay's current offense does.

This is why I see Jimmy G. as a potential bridge QB next year if Stafford's health doesn't hold up this year. IMO the problem with Matt is that the odds of him missing games this year is better than him going injury free. The problem is Stafford has a history of hiding his injury and now he has every incentive to do so. His tendonitis is a chronic condition and the Rams need to lean on their run attack to reduce Stafford's pass count. That is why drafting Corum is huge this year. With Williams and Corun and the IOL they have, the Rams can do just that.


I mean, I can't there is so much wrong with this post...

Did you actually watch Jimmy play last year??? He was terrible and more than anything he cant stay on the field. He is a spot starter at best, which is why the Rams signed him if Stafford happens to miss a a game or two.

McVay ran Goff out of town?? Now you can say McVay lost patience or lost confidence. But tried to run him out of town...NO.

Goff very good passer of the football, but terrible against pressure, been his whole career. I will take Matthew and his 4th Q comebacks every day of the week. With Staff brain and McVay they unlock the possibilities together. Stafford was absolutely incredible last year, one of the best QB job season ever. Still not sure why you hate him so much.

 by /zn/
1 week 6 days ago
 Total posts:   6803  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Hall of Fame

The McVay/Goff story is old and has been well-documented. Former Rams coaches who now coach elsewhere had comments on it. Basically once McV became the de facto qb coach in 2019, JG went downhill. Lack of communication, Goff losing confidence and playing like it. In Detroit the OC, Johnson, took a different approach, building JG's confidence and structuring the offense around his strengths.

What about 2017 and 2018? Each year Rams had a veteran qb coach who could mediate things between JG and McV. (Those coaches were Greg Olson, who has long been a good one, and Zac Taylor, who was an NFL qb coach from 2012-2016 and has done well with Burrow since becoming the head coach there.) McV didn't become the de facto qb coach until 2019.

Stafford was good for McV. Detroit was good for Goff. If he coaches long enough for this to happen, maybe the next time McV has a young qb he'll handle it better.

 by snackdaddy
1 week 4 days ago
 Total posts:   9707  
 Joined:  May 30 2015
United States of America   Merced California
Hall of Fame

If the Rams were not able to pull the trigger on the Stafford trade, I believe McVay and Goff would have worked things out. But I also do not believe we'd be calling them Superbowl champs in 2021. Those things Stafford did late in the Tampa, SF and Superbowl games I don't see Goff doing that.

 by BrooklynRam74
1 week 4 days ago
 Total posts:   226  
 Joined:  Dec 07 2022
United States of America   LA Coliseum
Rookie

snackdaddy wrote:If the Rams were not able to pull the trigger on the Stafford trade, I believe McVay and Goff would have worked things out. But I also do not believe we'd be calling them Superbowl champs in 2021. Those things Stafford did late in the Tampa, SF and Superbowl games I don't see Goff doing that.


Well of course. No, Goff couldn't have won the Super Bowl that Stafford did. Also think that Stafford will win more Super Bowls than Goff from here on out.

 by /zn/
1 week 4 days ago
 Total posts:   6803  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Hall of Fame

BrooklynRam74 wrote:Well of course. No, Goff couldn't have won the Super Bowl that Stafford did. Also think that Stafford will win more Super Bowls than Goff from here on out.


Stafford's the better qb, which isn't the issue. Stafford's just one of the absolutely best going back years. Goff is good though, as Detroit proved. Still, the issue being discussed isn't who is better at qb. And it's not "should they have made the trade."

Of course they should have made the trade. Goff and McV had a "bad marriage" and nothing was going to fix that. One of them had to go and it wasn't going to be the head coach (not in this case). Goff needed a more patient qb coach/coordinator who listened to him, built his confidence, and built the offense around his strengths. And McVay was absolutely going to listen to Stafford--Stafford has been a top NFL qb for longer than McV has been an NFL coach at any level. The year Stafford was drafted, McV was the WR coach for the UFL's Florida Tuskers. Stafford talks about his "collaboration" with McV, and they both needed that kind of scenario.

The hard lesson McV had to learn from 2019-2020 and coaching Goff was not to rip his qb in public. Which he did. There's a great article on the trade from back in 2021, where a former Rams coach--who I think was Zac Taylor (all the signs indicate it was Taylor) said of the Goff/McV "marriage" that

“Sean lost touch with how much he was breaking Jared down, but there’s got to be the build back up,” a league source said. “[McVay] was either unaware or disinterested in protecting Jared’s confidence.”

link: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/311 ... geles-rams


IMO McV needed the veteran Stafford as much as Stafford needed McV. It's a good marriage. So no complaints about the trade, not from me anyway.

....

 by Elvis
1 week 4 days ago
 Total posts:   38885  
 Joined:  Mar 28 2015
United States of America   Los Angeles
Administrator

I have a hard time coming up with a definitive take on Goff. He's obviously good. People forget how good the Rams offense was in 2017 and 2018.

But once Fangio's scheme started giving the offense trouble, McVay/Goff didn't have an answer. It seemed pretty clear that Goff wasn't able to do the things McVay wanted to attack a Fangio defense and McVay became very frustrated and unhappy with Goff.

Stafford was able.

Goff's first year in Detroit wasn't very good but we see how good he's been with Ben Johnson as the OC.

As always, i guess i just keep watching and see what happens next...

 by rams74
1 week 4 days ago
 Total posts:   1500  
 Joined:  Nov 19 2015
Italy   Glendale, Arizona
Pro Bowl

Elvis wrote:I have a hard time coming up with a definitive take on Goff. He's obviously good. People forget how good the Rams offense was in 2017 and 2018.

But once Fangio's scheme started giving the offense trouble, McVay/Goff didn't have an answer. It seemed pretty clear that Goff wasn't able to do the things McVay wanted to attack a Fangio defense and McVay became very frustrated and unhappy with Goff.

Stafford was able.

Goff's first year in Detroit wasn't very good but we see how good he's been with Ben Johnson as the OC.

As always, i guess i just keep watching and see what happens next...

I'm pretty sure (positive, actually) that you're not suggesting that Ben Johnson is a better OC than Sean McVay. But from a certain perspective, one could draw that conclusion from this story.

And although the two cases are very different, I remember a certain Rams' head coach who became frustrated and unhappy with a certain Rams' quarterback and ended up getting rid of him. That quarterback is now in the Hall of Fame. Kurt Warner wouldn't be in the HOF without his success with the Rams, but he wouldn't be without his success with the Cardinals, either.

I'm not suggesting that Jared Goff is as good as Kurt Warner, but I think he's plenty good enough to win a Super Bowl, with the right team in the right circumstances. Stafford/McVay's Rams were the right team to win a Super Bowl in the right circumstances. The right circumstances being: I'm sure glad they didn't have to play the NFCC game in Green Bay.

You can be good enough, and still not have things work out in a given place and time. How you end up responding to those kinds of challenges says a lot about a guy. Jared's career has always been about rebounding from failure to success.

I hope he continues to have success. But I'd just as soon it didn't happen at the expense of the Rams anymore.

 by Elvis
1 week 4 days ago
 Total posts:   38885  
 Joined:  Mar 28 2015
United States of America   Los Angeles
Administrator

Johnson has had an amazing start to his OC career but he's got a long way to go to be in the conversation with McVay.

As for Warner, he had like 5+ down years starting in 2002 until he got back to playing at a probowl/HOF level in AZ. What team would stick with that? The Rams didn't. The Giants didn't and even AZ benched him before he finally won the starting job for good.

I'd have loved to see him stay with the Rams, rehab, be a backup until he regained his form but he wasn't interested in that. The Rams probably weren't either but Warner made it pretty clear if he wasn't going to be the started he wanted to be released.

It's a shame but he was not playing well at the time and it was years till he really hit his stride again.

 by rams74
1 week 3 days ago
 Total posts:   1500  
 Joined:  Nov 19 2015
Italy   Glendale, Arizona
Pro Bowl

Elvis wrote:Johnson has had an amazing start to his OC career but he's got a long way to go to be in the conversation with McVay.

As for Warner, he had like 5+ down years starting in 2002 until he got back to playing at a probowl/HOF level in AZ. What team would stick with that? The Rams didn't. The Giants didn't and even AZ benched him before he finally won the starting job for good.

I'd have loved to see him stay with the Rams, rehab, be a backup until he regained his form but he wasn't interested in that. The Rams probably weren't either but Warner made it pretty clear if he wasn't going to be the started he wanted to be released.

It's a shame but he was not playing well at the time and it was years till he really hit his stride again.

Certainly, Warner's career path to the HOF was unconventional, to say the least.

But rather than continue to pore over the details of what happened with Kurt and why (as I'm inclined to do), I'll just circle back to the fact that I find it interesting that there are certain broad similarities between Kurt's career and Jared's.

And it will be interesting to see where Jared's career goes from here.

  • 2 / 2
  • 1
  • 2
19 posts Jun 16 2024