Rams Fans United - Los Angeles Rams Fan Discussion Forum

i've heard this aped a lot lately, and maybe it's true, i mean it seems to make sense, and sure sounds great, but i wonder just how often it truly happens in practice, because it's a bit hard for me to believe that an "offensive genius" who is convinced that his x's and o's are the cat's meow would change his system to fit a qb, because a qb couldn't conform, in fact i think it could be argued it's one of the main reasons goff was sent packing, because he just didn't fit, or just couldn't produce, in mcvay's system.

heck, i have a tough time imagining martz sitting down with kurt and saying "ok kurt, before i even begin to put chalk to board, i want you to tell me what you feel comfortable doing, what you think you excel at, and we'll work from there..."... moreover, something tells me that those classic, vintage shots of chuck noll tearing bradshaw a new one on the sideline, time and again, weren't an example of chuck apologizing to terry that it was his (chuck's) fault that his system failed terry.

to that end, what will we see from mcvay with stafford in town? will mcvay chuck the system that took the rams to the super bowl in his second year on the job, a system rooted in play-action, and throwing the ball from under center on 1st and 2nd downs? or will we see a new system from mcvay, a system that mirrors the shorgun-centric system that stafford earned his reputation as a solid, strong-armed nfl qb?

here's a look at how often qbs threw from the shotgun (vs under center) in 2020, on 1st and 2nd downs (all qbs throw a lot from the shotgun on 3rd down, including goff)...



- for the 2017-2020 stretch goff's rate for pass attempts out of the shotgun on 1st and 2nd downs was 51.8%.
- for the 2016-2020 stretch stafford's rate for pass attempts out of the shotgun on 1st and 2nd downs was 78.3%.

what will give? anything?

I think it's the opposite. Great coaches find QBs that fit their system: Green, Warner, Bulger, none of them highly regarded coming into the NFL but all had great success in Martz's Coryell based offense.

McVay picked Stafford. Expectations are rightly high...

Elvis wrote:I think it's the opposite. Great coaches find QBs that fit their system: Green, Warner, Bulger, none of them highly regarded coming into the NFL but all had great success in Martz's Coryell based offense.

if that were true tho wouldn't it be common to see teams pass on the general consensus first overall qb prospects every year, because they didn't fit a team's particular system? wouldn't fewer teams be interested in watson because he didn't fit their system? is there a 2021 nfl team that would pass on lawrence because he doesn't fit their system?

that said, as i mentioned above, the much aped notion that great coaches make their system fit the qb, his skillsets, sounds good, but it's tough for me to believe that it actually happens much in practice - instead it seems that coaches are interested in the most talent they can get and then work from there.

anyway, so what do you think we'll see from stafford/mcvay? mcvay has been one of the most play-action heavy coaches in the league, even before he came to the rams, so has shanny for that matter, and by extension he's also been tops in throwing from under center (vs shotgun) on 1st and 2nd downs, something stafford didn't do much in detroit... so will stafford become a top play-action qb in mcvay's system or will mcvay become a 1st and 2nd down shotgun coach?

My guess is that it will look a lot like McVay's system two years ago. Gone will be the excessive roll-outs (just some) and more play-action off duo and man blocking than wide-zone, probably a good deal more passing and even shotgun sets on 1st and 2nd down. Less half-backs staying in to block and more out on pass patterns.

Jourdan has alluded to viewing all the series with Wolford under center to see what the offense will look like.

My other guess is that he'll throw in some things that Stafford likes and did well in Detroit with the passing game.

It'll be a marriage of McVay's system and what Stafford wants... which if you believe Charle's Robinson's reporting was what McVay wanted from Goff, to begin to own parts of the offense and evolve past wide-zone play-action.

Speaking of marriage of QB and system: Charles Robinson is a great NFL reporter and breaks a lot of stories. His discussion of McVay and Goff starts at around 5 min mark. Stay for the 49ers reporting.

aeneas1 wrote:if that were true tho wouldn't it be common to see teams pass on the general consensus first overall qb prospects every year, because they didn't fit a team's particular system? wouldn't fewer teams be interested in watson because he didn't fit their system? is there a 2021 nfl team that would pass on lawrence because he doesn't fit their system?

that said, as i mentioned above, the much aped notion that great coaches make their system fit the qb, his skillsets, sounds good, but it's tough for me to believe that it actually happens much in practice - instead it seems that coaches are interested in the most talent they can get and then work from there.

anyway, so what do you think we'll see from stafford/mcvay? mcvay has been one of the most play-action heavy coaches in the league, even before he came to the rams, so has shanny for that matter, and by extension he's also been tops in throwing from under center (vs shotgun) on 1st and 2nd downs, something stafford didn't do much in detroit... so will stafford become a top play-action qb in mcvay's system or will mcvay become a 1st and 2nd down shotgun coach?

I thought we were talking about great coaches not Steve Spagnulo and Jeff Fisher?

But really there's too many ways to do it to say there's a pattern or a blueprint.

You find guys that can play in your system then tailor that system as needed to fit specifically who you have.

The GSOT wouldn't have been possible with Tony Banks but it didn't need a #1 pick either.

Montana, Warner, Brady, you don't have to be a top pick to succeed in a top offense.

As for Stafford, i expect we'll see a lot more aggressive, attacking passing. It won't be the last we've seen of screens and dump offs but as you know we've been relying on the short game an insane amount the last two years. I expect that to change, substantially. I think the middle of the field will be more in play too.

You?

I doubt that there are many guys that can transcend a system but there was an argument that Rodgers did it. It was reported some that McCarthy's offensive system was pretty bland and basic but Rodgers would end up calling his own plays and changing plays on the fly or just moving out of structure to create something new.

At the bare minimum, I think a top guy has to be able to play out of structure at times, when the play breaks down. That wasn't Goff. It's not even Brady but the one thing Brady could do was move in the pocket. Best pocket movement I ever saw. Guess you don't have to play out of structure when you're still standing to throw late in the play. CBs can't cover forever.

Elvis wrote:I thought we were talking about great coaches not Steve Spagnulo and Jeff Fisher?

But really there's too many ways to do it to say there's a pattern or a blueprint.

You find guys that can play in your system then tailor that system as needed to fit specifically who you have.

The GSOT wouldn't have been possible with Tony Banks but it didn't need a #1 pick either.

Montana, Warner, Brady, you don't have to be a top pick to succeed in a top offense.

As for Stafford, i expect we'll see a lot more aggressive, attacking passing. It won't be the last we've seen of screens and dump offs but as you know we've been relying on the short game an insane amount the last two years. I expect that to change, substantially. I think the middle of the field will be more in play too.

You?

not sure i get the spags/fish reference but the reason i started this thread is because the notion that great coaches make their system fit their qb's talent / skill set has been aped a lot in the media lately, and i found it to be yet another nflism that doesn't really pass muster, it may sound good, intuitive even, but i just don't see it really happening in he league, hence my using chuck noll and mike martz as examples.

re stafford, gonna be interesting, very much looking forward to seeing what he and mcvay can do together (assuming ms stays healthy).. personally i've never been as impressed with stafford as other nfl fans, always thought he should have produced more during the stretch when he had some solid talent around him, plus he's capable of hitting some bad stretches.

that said, he's a gritty player and, frankly, much more of a prototypical qb in build and athleticism than goff - in fact that always kind of bugged me about goff, altho i was hoping he might turn to be a montana-like guy, another guy who wasn't a prototypical type of qb in terms of build and athleticism but excelled nonetheless.

will stafford have huge success under mcvay? i wouldn't be at all surprised and i'm hoping like hell that will be the case, but i think he has just as much chance of being the same qb he was in in detroit, middle of the pack... whatever the case, the trade has presented some pretty intriguing scenarios: if stafford isn't hugely successful does it say more about him or mcvay? and of course if goff has success in detroit, does that mean anything? that said, it seems clear that the rams are in a much better position to succeed with mcvay + stafford, than goff is in detroit, at least according to vegas and every talking head.

as far as what the offense will look like, well it's impossible to imagine that shots downfield will stay flat compared to 2020, that simply can't happen, question is what kind of pass pro can we expect? and, again, it will be interesting to see if mcvay moves away from his play-action bread and butter with stafford, if he rolls out a more shotgun-centric offense, and if he abandons his move to 12-personnel and other 2 or fewer wr sets.

It really will define whether or not McVay's system elevates what a QB can do. Some of the videos on Stafford have said that he isn't at his best just running the offense. That he doesn't really "kick-in" until he has to lead a comeback. That doesn't sound like a good fit for what McVay wants to do at all.

But, I think that may have been more a by-product of the situation in Detroit. Granted, some of it may have been Stafford for some reason but regardless, I think McVay will put Stafford in situations where his efficiency will go up. Instead of having to make tight-window or low percentage throws, the percentage of schemed open receivers will make the majority of what Stafford does less risky. The Lions already started some of that the last couple of years really. But I have more faith in what McVay provides than what the Lions were.

It won't surprise me at all if Stafford's completion % jumps to 70% while not seeing a decrease in other things that he does.

Personally I think the system worked well because Todd Gurley played at an elite level. I don't think its any coincidence things started to change late 2018 when he started having problems with his knee. He wasn't even close to that level in 2019.

Akers is not Todd Gurley in his prime, but he is a solid running back they can lean on. Stafford should make them better. I wouldn't be surprised to see more of that 11 personnel McVay loved so much with the ability to run play action.