Rams Fans United - Los Angeles Rams Fan Discussion Forum

I get the sense that some of the owners like the idea of controlling the LA market themselves. And the Carson project is more in line with that position, while Kroenke's project may scare them a bit because they won't have enough control over what he does. These guys think they own the LA market and don't want to give it up to one guy. It's possible that they see Kroenke as a threat to their kingdom. And they want to limit his power.

I don't see how Kroenke will get approval for anything close to what he wants. I think he's going to have to either make huge concessions or go rogue.

I think Kroenke just may go rogue and move the team without league approval if the concessions are too outlandish. The owners must know this, and that has to play into their decision making. So my guess is there will be some compromise by all sides to avoid a totally ugly situation.

Listening to Vinny Bonsigniore last night, I came away thinking that his statement on the end game was realistic. He basically said, he thinks it will end up as Rams and Chargers in LA, and Raiders getting help to build in Oakland. Vinny added that if that didn't happen, then Carson would be the alternate. This is consistent with my view that the owners will not let Stan get LA all to himself.

I think there are enough negatives to the Carson plan to lure the owners into working with Stan. I still have a hard time grasping why Spanos would want to play 2nd fiddle to the Raiders in LA. Now, if Spanos had enough money to have had a plan all to himself to move to LA, then he'd be in the cat bird seat. But since he doesn't I don't see how LA doesn't cause him a lot of concern about being upstaged by the Raiders, his long time rival.

Everytime I look at the repercussions of the Carson plan winning, and Kroenke being left having to crawl back to StL with his tail between his legs, I don't see how it can end happily. And I don't see how the NFL would make a final decision that ends so unhappily for any owner.

The problem is at best Carson will break ground in two years. At worst it won't get EPA approval at the end of two years and be further delayed or ruled out. The owners know this and are smart business men. I think they'll try to work with Inglewood because it's the best option and will be ready for play sooner than any of the other options including St Louis. That and having a business man with Stan's ability leading their LA venture is good for league business.

OldSchool wrote:The problem is at best Carson will break ground in two years. At worst it won't get EPA approval at the end of two years and be further delayed or ruled out. The owners know this and are smart business men. I think they'll try to work with Inglewood because it's the best option and will be ready for play sooner than any of the other options including St Louis. That and having a business man with Stan's ability leading their LA venture is good for league business.

And I totally concur with this assessment, however, the caveat is Dean Spanos, he seems to have changed IMO, where he feels there is more opportunity in Los Angeles or fears Kroenke and does not want to go up against him. He feels fine against Davis, who wouldn't? Again I concur I can't see from everything that's been written and posted on how Carson is even an option, but let's hope come August things will be clear and our boys will be coming back to where they belong!

Stan is footing the bill, the other owners don't have to chip in a dime of their own money, but stand to make a bundle on a potentially huge TV contract. they love money, and they will vote for money, because they risk nothing.

If it's true that Carson won't be able to break ground in at least 2 years, that means that Kroenke knows that he will have at least a 2 year head start on Carson. That certainly goes against the narrative that Carson is almost caught up to Inglewood.

I doubt Kroneke is gonna accept the NFL putting off the LA move for another year, so Carson being 2 years behind Inglewood would be a huge game changer in my mind.

I haven't heard one report from any national sports guy that says Carson is 2 years behind Inglewood. Why is that?

I think there's a lot of noise being made but it has no substance. First of all, who's idea was it for Stan to make the 'stache-Mahal two-team capable? I don't think that was in his original plan. But he's working with the league. Who's idea was it for him to delay the news of his project? It wasn't Stan. He's ready. But he acquiesced and is working with the league and gave up an entire year.

Everything that's happened since then is the old LA leverage game. St. Louis and San Diego are hopping around like Mexican jumping beans trying to get something done. Not too sure about Oakland, haven't heard much. But the point is, Stan has played ball and when the time comes, his project will get the green light.

Mainly, because it will benefit the league. If they okay the Inglewood project then they get an NFL presence back in LA. Check. They get some relocation money. Check. They get a stadium ready-built for two NFL teams which equals the LA leverage game is still alive. Check.

If they okay Carson, they have to figure out the toxicity problem. Can that even be "solved"? From the little I've read, they'd have to continue to vent or drain the land of toxic material for years. I'm pretty sure they'd have to build into their shiny new stadium venting equipment for the toxic fumes. Also, how stable is that stadium's foundation going to be? The process for building on loose soil involves drilling and anchoring and because of the particular setup, they have to go a lot deep than normal. That seems like a risk all on it's own but that they have to do it in an area that has earthquake potential? How many risks can one plan have?

Then you have the potential tenants for this plan. The NFL would lose San Diego as a city if the Chargers moved. Maybe that's not a deal-breaker but it can't be a plus. Second, you'd have the Raiders back in LA which from all I've read, would be akin to Al Davis winning. Do the other owners really want that? Then the league would have to re-align. On it's own, probably not a deal-breaker either but when all of this is added up...it sounds like the Carson project would be a giant mess for the league.

Rams to LA, Chargers stay in SD with a new stadium, the Raiders are next in the queue to play the LA leverage game, St. Louis and San Antonio are ripe for expansion in a couple of years when the NFL gets back to talking about expansion, an 18 game season and expanded playoffs. I think that's what happens.

max wrote:If it's true that Carson won't be able to break ground in at least 2 years, that means that Kroenke knows that he will have at least a 2 year head start on Carson. That certainly goes against the narrative that Carson is almost caught up to Inglewood.

I doubt Kroneke is gonna accept the NFL putting off the LA move for another year, so Carson being 2 years behind Inglewood would be a huge game changer in my mind.

I haven't heard one report from any national sports guy that says Carson is 2 years behind Inglewood. Why is that?

What I think he means is that ESK could start building in 2015-16 and it is reported it will take at least a year before Carson can clean up that toxic site enough to start building. If there has ever been a project that the EPA should be concerned about , it's Carson. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that delay or derail the project anyway. So by the time Inglewood would already have the hole dug and the forms filled with concrete Carson could start drilling those caissons every 20 feet down to bedrock to support the stadiums over very loamy damp and dirty soil.
I don't think I would even go see a Rams game in that joint.

Hacksaw wrote:

max wrote:If it's true that Carson won't be able to break ground in at least 2 years, that means that Kroenke knows that he will have at least a 2 year head start on Carson. That certainly goes against the narrative that Carson is almost caught up to Inglewood.

I doubt Kroneke is gonna accept the NFL putting off the LA move for another year, so Carson being 2 years behind Inglewood would be a huge game changer in my mind.

I haven't heard one report from any national sports guy that says Carson is 2 years behind Inglewood. Why is that?

What I think he means is that ESK could start building in 2015-16 and it is reported it will take at least a year before Carson can clean up that toxic site enough to start building. If there has ever been a project that the EPA should be concerned about , it's Carson. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that delay or derail the project anyway. So by the time Inglewood would already have the hole dug and the forms filled with concrete Carson could start drilling those caissons every 20 feet down to bedrock to support the stadiums over very loamy damp and dirty soil.
I don't think I would even go see a Rams game in that joint.

Carson has to go through and EPA mandated cleaning process to remove the toxic goop that oozes from the ground on the site. That is estimated to take 18 months to finish. After that they'll have to be cleared by the EPA which would take around 6 more months. So at best they couldn't get cleared to build by the EPA there for 2 years. That's before they could even break ground if best estimates work in their favor.

The NFL has always claimed they control the L.A. market and now they've basically been made fools of.

First Kroenke buys the land in Inglewood and makes his intention of building a stadium known. Then the Chargers and Raiders announce their Carson plans. All of this was done without any NFL involvement. Far from being in control the NFL was completely out of control.

So now the NFL wants to either assert its authority, or at least give the appearance of driving events. I think it's the latter. Stan Kroenke has been driving events from the beginning of all of this. I find it hard to believe he's lost control.

But as always, only time will tell...

If indeed the Carson plan is 2 years behind Inglewood, then you can add that to:
The Raiders being the popular new face of LA over Spanos's team, which I doubt the NFL wants.
Moving a team from the NFC to the AFC, which is easier said than done.
Owners without money or experience in developing anything trying to finish a project that requires outside support.

If the NFL chooses a plan with those shortcomings, they would be jeopardizing a lot just to make Spanos happy and suppress Kroenke.