[PARAM]

Goff has turnover problems?

He's started 60 games for the Rams (42-18, .700 win pct). In 14 of them (23%) he's had at least 2 turnovers and he's 6-8 in those games. In 7 of them (11.6%) he's had at least 3 turnovers and he's 1-6. So when Goff keeps the turnovers at 2 or less (which he has done 88.4% of the time), he's 41-12. That's a .773 win percentage which equates to more than 12 wins in a season. Goff has a turnover problem?

There's not a huge difference in the Rams winning percentage when he turns it over only twice (5-2, .750) compared to less (36-10, . 782). A half a win over 16 games. Like I said, keep in at 2 or less, and he has in 88.4% of his starts, it's a .777 win percentage.

7 "shit the bed" games in 4 years and we won 1 of those, barely lost 2 others by 3 pts, 5 pts? I think we can live with that.

[PARAM]

I don't understand why this is so.. controversial?
I'm not even saying all turnovers are awful.. or all his are. For example.. the Tampa Int may have been a WR getting knocked off his route a little late and a missed call by the refs.
But.. yeah.. Goff has a turnover problem. Is he a bad QB? Nope. But his problem *could* prevent the Rams from achieving what they want to achieve.

It's not "controversial". Sure Goff has had "games" where turnovers are a problem, so I guess you're 100% correct.....Goff has a turnover problem. Except in the games when he doesn't. I don't know why THAT is so controversial. Certainly, if he has one of *those* games in the postseason, we might not win. But in the same vein, if the defense has an *off* game, we might not win. Or if McVay has an *off* game we might not win.

Turnovers are the most glaring factor in games won or lost. That's the truth. Goff has had 7 games with 3 turnovers or more in 4 years and we're 1-6. Goff has had 7 games in 4 years with 2 turnovers and we're 5-2. Goff has had 25 games with just 1 turnover and we're 16-9. He's had 21 games with none and we're 20-1.

Here's a comparison. Rodgers has had 7 games with 2 turnovers from 2017-2020 and the Packers are 1-6. He rarely turns the ball over. The guy has had very few multiple turnover games in his career. So maybe when he turns it over, it's even more problematic for the Packers. And in the postseason, he's had 5 multiple turnover games in 19...about 25%....and the Packers are 1-4.

If you turn the ball over, it lessens your chances of winning be it regular season or playoffs. If you have games with multiple turnovers, it's even worse. But having 2 games with 3 and 4 turnovers in a season, isn't an indication of a "turnover problem", as in often, every game, terrible record. If Goff has a turnover problem in 2020, then he's a fucking magician because the Rams are 9-4.

If you throw passes, you're going to throw interceptions.
Last 4 years (2017-2020) Most passes attempted

1. Brady 2261 - 38 Int
2. Ryan 2251 - 44 Int
3. Goff 2139 - 46 Int
4. Rivers 2128 - 51 Int

Brady, Ryan and Rivers all have "turnover problems".

[PARAM]

Thanks for throwing Rivers in.. because he's ABSOLUTELY the comp.
Ryan's not far off.

Coming into 2020......

PHILIP RIVERS, Indianapolis:

*Needs 2,091 passing yards to surpass Pro Football Hall of Famer Dan Marino (61,361) for fifth place on the all-time passing-yards list. (3507)
*Needs 24 touchdown passes to surpass Pro Football Hall of Famer Dan Marino (420) for fifth place on the all-time passing-touchdowns list. (20)
*Needs 60 completed passes to surpass Pro Football Hall of Famer Dan Marino (4,967) for fifth place on the all-time completions list. (309)
*Needs 4,000 passing yards for his eighth consecutive season with at least 4,000 passing yards, tied with Peyton Manning for the thirdlongest such streak in NFL history.(3507)
*Needs 25 touchdown passes to surpass Pro Football Hall of Famer Brett Favre (11 seasons) for the fourth-most such seasons in NFL history. (20)
*Needs 20 touchdown passes to tie Pro Football Hall of Famer Brett Favre (15 seasons) for the fourth-most such seasons in NFL history. (20)

[PARAM]

Yup.
Now go ask Chargers fans about him and his penchant for back breaking turnovers.

My critique of Goff has had the same basis.. winning a championship. I don't suggest his TD numbers need to be better.. or that he needs to, "make everyone around him better".. or that he "needs to be a more fiery leader"... or that he needs to "show that he can put the team on his back".. or any of that nonsense.

It's that he has a recurring issue of absolutely mind-numbing turnovers at brutal times.
If those pop up in a playoff run? Tough to overcome.

I get all that. That's YOUR opinion of Goff and I'm not going to convince you you're wrong. My "opinion"? Has he had some games where his turnovers crushed us? Sure, Miami. SF...(and we still came back to take the lead, so his turnovers were hardly too much to overcome). How many others? 2? 4? In 60 freaking career games under McVay!! He's had 2 games this year with 7 turnovers and 12 turnovers in the other 11 games. Guys make mistakes. Warner threw a nice one to Ty Law in SB36. Manning had a helluva game, 3 turnovers, 8 points against Seattle....43-8. It happens. TO THE BEST OF THEM. He doesn't have a turnover problem.

BTW, Rivers (though I love his style) has got his teams to how many Superbowls? So Goff didn't get you a Championship in his 3rd year. Have a little patience Dick, maybe he'll get you one soon. And if that is the only measure of an excellent QB, there are a lot of Hall of Famers who fall short of your expectations. But they're still HOFers.

[PARAM]

Why worry? That's interest paid on a debt not yet due. There as much chance he'll play like the other 11 games this year, where he doesn't turn the ball over or if he does, only once and not at a crucial time that's costly. I used to worry every time Z lined up for an important FG and look what he did....kicked a game winner from 57 yards in the Conference Championship.

[ramsman34]

I don’t think Goff has a “turnover problem” per se, Dick84. But he does have a problem with the timing of a lot of his turnovers and how they occur. You called them mind numbingly boneheaded (paraphrasing) and a lot of them have been. THAT is a problem. And it can be fixed. Once it is, we have a top 10 QB IMO. I do agree that if this situation arises in the playoffs, chances are we lose.

[/zn/]

I don’t think Goff has a “turnover problem” per se, Dick84. But he does have a problem with the timing of a lot of his turnovers and how they occur. You called them mind numbingly boneheaded (paraphrasing) and a lot of them have been. THAT is a problem. And it can be fixed. Once it is, we have a top 10 QB IMO. I do agree that if this situation arises in the playoffs, chances are we lose.

I think he presses when the offense is struggling. Tries to make plays instead of taking sacks or in one case instead of sliding etc. IMO if he just cut down on that tendency then the turnovers would revert to no-big-deal normal.

[69RamFan]

Its funny,

There are games where ppl say, what a bonehead move, and why did Goff do that...

Then they lump it all to one season....

Then there are other plays, you just say wow,,, how did he escape and make that throw? Nice...

Example: A1 posted vids on some plays on the blocking schemes and you say, what was McVay thinking on the blocking scheme leaving the DE run free, but Goff made the play... both to Higbee...

So for every bad play he made,,, he makes more plays to make you say wow...

if he never took a chance to make those play and just take a sack...

I don't think we would have a record of 9-4 or be in position to win the Division...

I think Bill Parcells made a quote at one time something like this,,, "if your not throwing INTs then you're not taking chances and making plays"...

As far as fumbles, he has lost four in TO's,,,, and I'm only blaming one on him out of those four... when he ran and didnt slide... the others were either on the OL or RB blocking scheme...

[aeneas1]

I don’t think Goff has a “turnover problem” per se, Dick84. But he does have a problem with the timing of a lot of his turnovers and how they occur.

yeah, the notion that goff goff has a "turnover problem" is a pretty tough sell imo, a very tough sell.

he's had 2 bad turnover (picks + lost fumbles) games out of 13, two games that alone account for almost 50% of his turnovers on the year.... in his 11 other outings his turnover rate is just 0.73 per game, well below the league average of 0.93, in fact a 0.73 rate would put him at 8th in fewest turnovers per game.

but because of 2 bad games, against the usual suspect defenses (dolphins and niners), goff has a turnover problem, again a tough sell imo.

as far as his turnovers coming at the worst time? i'd say that describes the vast majority of nfl turnovers, i.e. they don't usually come at "good times".

[aeneas1]

I honestly don't get the resistance to the concept I'm presenting.

I'll just move on.

resistance? i see a few posters who happen to not share your take on the subject and have explained why, nothing more, no big deal... i tend to look at it the same way i would look at a rams defense that coughed up 40+ points in two different games, but held the other 11 opponents to well under the league average - i wouldn't think the defense had a problem keeping opponents off the scoreboard, especially if the 2 bad games were against a couple of offenses that always scored well on the rams.