[AvengerRam]

The whole concept is about where Goff is in his development.

Further along, I'd argue, than most QBs (even those who eventually became elite) were at 24.

[PARAM]

goff is a pro bowl qb who owns the best record in football thru week 13, he's a top tier qb, he's "there yet".

He's 19-3 in his last 22 regular season starts (and in two of those losses his offense put up 28 and 35 points, normally more than enough to win). That's pretty damn good for a QB "not there yet" in any category.

[/zn/]

Further along, I'd argue, than most QBs (even those who eventually became elite) were at 24.

Just some thoughts to keep the conversation going.

Wentz regressed a bit in 2018. Not as dramatically as some say but a bit certainly. There various ideas about that and why. One of course is coming back from knee surgery. The other is losing Reich, who it is claimed was the real offensive coaching talent with the Eagles (what he's doing with Luck might support that).

I think the very fact that Goff had 7 subpar games (subpar for him.) in 2 years points to the fact that he's still not fully seasoned and yes is still growing. But that's not a criticism. The assumption is that with more experience those kinds of games (since all qbs have "off" games) will be fewer and further between. He has done nothing to question the idea that he is on an upward trajectory. I think it's a very safe bet that he will be even better next year.

But this is all just opening the hood and fine-tuning the engine kind of analysis. (Which admittedly annoys some people but I think that factoring that out, and taken in itself, that kind of analysis is always a legit thing.) Overall in terms of qb rating Goff is 5th, behind guys like Brees, Rivers, and Wilson, all of whom of course have more experience. That seems about right.

You can't though put the entire record on Goff. The Rams are 11-1 this year in spite of 3 subpar games from him, where for any number of reasons he was not hitting on all cylinders. They won all 3 of those games, in spite of him having 2 TDs and 4 INTs in those games. ( 4 of his 7 INTs are in just those 3 games.) Now how is that a positive thing? Because if this team doesn't even need him to be in top form to win, then obviously they are even better as a team when he IS "on."

[PARAM]

what you said was wentz might be there and mahomes is there (but maybe not mentally)

It's laughable those two were included on Max's list.
Mahomes has started a whopping 13 games (11-2)
Wentz has started 39 (23-16).
Goff 34 (22-12).

[/zn/]

It's laughable

Translated into adult conversation mode: "I disagree with X on Y"

[max]

Further along, I'd argue, than most QBs (even those who eventually became elite) were at 24.

No argument from me on that.

The point is where is Goff right NOW.

My argument is he is "not there" NOW.

So if he has a bad performance on the road against a good D, the argument shouldn't be he was fine, or we won didn't we, or its just one bad game, or lets drag out a bunch of stats that show other QBs having bad games, or any such head in the sand hero worship crap. I maintain the right approach is well, he's not there yet, give him another year or two.

[PARAM]

Translated into adult conversation mode: "I disagree with X on Y"

Fuck off. It is laughable. Mahomes? Wentz? To quote Tommy Jackson, "come on man!!". But feel free to keep up with the self appointed position of forum cop and lecturer.

[/zn/]

Fuck off. It is laughable. Mahomes? Wentz? To quote Tommy Jackson, "come on man!!". But feel free to keep up with the self appointed position of forum cop and lecturer.

Thought you would appreciate that. And that it would lead to forum cop stuff from you, ironically.

[/zn/]

No argument from me on that.

The point is where is Goff right NOW.

My argument is he is "not there" NOW.

So if he has a bad performance on the road against a good D, the argument shouldn't be he was fine, or we won didn't we, or its just one bad game, or lets drag out a bunch of stats that show other QBs having bad games, or any such head in the sand hero worship crap. I maintain the right approach is well, he's not there yet, give him another year or two.

My own take is that so far he just has had bad games now and then. But he bounces back from them. I think it is fairly obvious he will be more consistent the more experienced he is.

FWIW here's VB's take on Goff's day in Detroit:

They were doing some different things defensively coverage wise and pressure wise. I think that plus the long lay off all contributed

Sometimes all this can lead to skewed discussion. So for example no one ever said he can't do 4th quarter comebacks. At one point some said he hasn't yet. At the time the argument against that was never yes he can. Ironically, at the time the dominant argument against that was that 4th quarter comebacks aren't important. Then later when he did have them, that switched to ha ha see it was dumb to say he can't. (which, again, no one ever said).

[dieterbrock]

I guess Drew Brees isn't there RIGHT NOW, seeing he had only 127 yards and a 71 rating in last week's loss on the road.