[ramsman34]

He’s free unless he performs.
Free.

Exactly! So McVay needs to maximize his limited skill set. The kid can fly. And if they can get corners to play off-man he should be able to simply fly right past them. Press corners can eliminate him. So, McVay will have to adjust what he does with Tay in the game plan week to week depending on match ups. There are plenty of ways to use him - all of which can lead to big plays; from him, his ability to clear space for others, his ability in the run game - mostly east-west, and as a decoy where defenses must respect the threat.

[Horny Mcbae]

Exactly! So McVay needs to maximize his limited skill set. The kid can fly. And if they can get corners to play off-man he should be able to simply fly right past them. Press corners can eliminate him. So, McVay will have to adjust what he does with Tay in the game plan week to week depending on match ups. There are plenty of ways to use him - all of which can lead to big plays; from him, his ability to clear space for others, his ability in the run game - mostly east-west, and as a decoy where defenses must respect the threat.

I think you are being overly optimistic in your expectations and overly generous in your evaluation of his ability.

[BobCarl]

if they can get corners to play off-man he should be able to simply fly right past them.

yes, but when the opposition knows that Tavon has ZERO ability to run a route under press coverage, how does McVay get the corners to play "off". The only answers I can come up with is to use him in motion or out of the backfield.

There are so many plays that can be drawn up for Tavon, and running them too often makes it easier and easier for opponents to defend.

a Jet Sweep or a decoy to free up the player running proverbial banana route ... when we get lucky the banana route gets shut down and Tavon gets open in the flats

[/zn/]

There are so many plays that can be drawn up for Tavon, and running them too often makes it easier and easier for opponents to defend.

a Jet Sweep or a decoy to free up the player running proverbial banana route ... when we get lucky the banana route gets shut down and Tavon gets open in the flats

It;s more than that.

I mean fron 2014-16 he caught 141 passes, with 8 TDs. They did not all reduce to things you guys are naming. I find it hard to believe that Cignetti could get more out of the guy than McVay can.

Plus, McVay uses bunch formations about as much as anyone I have ever seen, and lining up that way means he is not going to have to worry about press coverage that much. Plus there are passing plays out of the backfield etc as has been said.

He's just not going to line up as a traditional receiver most of the time because that's not what he is. He's an offensive weapon who runs some, catches some on routes he's good at, and also does some gadgets.

[dieterbrock]

It;s more than that.

I mean fron 2014-16 he caught 141 passes, with 8 TDs. They did not all reduce to things you guys are naming. I find it hard to believe that Cignetti could get more out of the guy than McVay can.
.

That's where lack of understanding of football hurts you there. Its a quantity over quality issue. TA had almost 240 targets to earn those 141 passes, almost
30 targets/TD and a meager 5.15 yds/ target
Compared to:
Woods 17 target/TD and 9.2 yds/target
Kupp 19 target/TD and 9.2 yds/target
Watkins 9 target/TD and 9.5 yds/target
Even Gurley crushed his numbers
15 target/TD and 9.1 yds/target

So the idea that "Cignetti got more out of him" just emphasizes how counter productive his participation was to the offense, not vice versa

[ramsman34]

:mrgreen:

I think you are being overly optimistic in your expectations and overly generous in your evaluation of his ability.

I don't think so. I didn't say he was going to catch a lot of balls. I said his deep speed, not against press man, would force at least some coverage to account for him. He has proven that he can take jet sweeps to the house as well as bubble and jailbreak screens at the LOS. He has also proven that he has to be accounted for on jet sweep action as well as play action as a RB. So tell me, where I have over estimated anything about him or how he can be used???

[ramsman34]

yes, but when the opposition knows that Tavon has ZERO ability to run a route under press coverage, how does McVay get the corners to play "off". The only answers I can come up with is to use him in motion or out of the backfield.

There are so many plays that can be drawn up for Tavon, and running them too often makes it easier and easier for opponents to defend.

a Jet Sweep or a decoy to free up the player running proverbial banana route ... when we get lucky the banana route gets shut down and Tavon gets open in the flats

I am not saying make him a major part of the game plan. I am saying that there are situations where he can make some positive impact on the offense. It is all situational. McVay has this season to design some things. That's about it. He won't be a major player, but he can be utilized to create occasional situational advantages.

[/zn/]

They had him for 4 years before McVay and they did use him on some deep balls but not that many. It's not the main thing you want him for. He;s not a consistent deep threat, and press coverage had nothing to do with why he was limited that way, but they did throw him some of them (5 or 6?). (He;s limited because he cannot adjust to the ball like a real receiver and needs to be hit in stride within his catch radius...that's because he's not a receiver, he;s an explosive athlete catching passes, and that's different.) Any assessment of Tavon which assumes he is or can be an actual pure receiver is already off the mark. He's not that. He can catch passes as he has already shown (to the tune of 141 receptions from 2014-16) but that does not make him a true receiver. So, don't act like he is one, and use him the way he can be used.

From 2014-16 they designed plays for him intended to get him open in space. He caught 141 passes in that time. The idea is to set up explosive plays and/or the threat of them. In that same 3 year span they also had him running the ball on 45% of his touches. He scored 15 TDs on runs or passes in that period. Which is another reason he has value.

They've already done all that. As a variation on something I already said, they set up plenty of plays where he caught the ball--and if Schott, Cigs, and Boras could come up with those, why couldn't McVay?

We don;'t have to debate what Tavon can do. We;ve seen it for 5 years now. He;s not a receiver, he's not a running back, he's a hybrid offensive weapon who can make big plays. He can run a specific package of pass plays, where the idea is either to get him the ball in space or threaten to do that. Some of those have been deep balls in the past so yeah you can add that to his mix, but not like you would with a real receiver. He also runs the ball either as a straight up running back or as a jet sweep wild card. He is explosive enough to be a decoy for Gurley because teams WILL account for him. Mix all that together and something else shows up---you cannot tell from where he lines up whether he will run one or catch one, and he can do both or as I said fake either one as a decoy.

So, again, if Schott, Cigs, and Boras knew how to use him that way, then you have to assume McVay will too. McVay didn;t do that last year but that doesn't mean he can't or won't do it this year.

...

[dieterbrock]

Sounds like an article from the Onion:
"McVay reaches out to Cignetti/Boras/Fisher to get *help* utilizing Tavon Austin"

[/zn/]

Sounds like an article from the Onion:
"McVay reaches out to Cignetti/Boras/Fisher to get *help* utilizing Tavon Austin"

This would be more like an Onion article:

"McVay couldn;t figure out what Schot, Cigs, and Boras already knew about using Tavon."