[max]

Except no one said "in spite of him."

There's going to be a range of views on a developing player and while I don't completely agree with Max, he made a fair point---Goff is probably not completely "there" yet. Again, that does not mean they win "in spite of him."

I did push the assessment of Goff to an extreme to make a point. There is plenty of room for growth, and I see the gap from where he is now to where he can be.

To say he grades out as an A or A- now makes no sense when it’s obvious that there is plenty of room for growth. So where is he now? Maybe a B- ?

[TomSlick]

Nothing wrong with disagreements. Pretty nifty the disagreements are regarding a team that is 10-4, first place in the NFC West and the best team in the league is 12-2 and the RAMS took them to the limit.

I imagine the disagreements would be a tad different with a record of 4-10.

[PARAM]

I did push the assessment of Goff to an extreme to make a point. There is plenty of room for growth, and I see the gap from where he is now to where he can be.

To say he grades out as an A or A- now makes no sense when it’s obvious that there is plenty of room for growth. So where is he now? Maybe a B- ?

I find grades silly but to each his own.

I'd say, he isn't "there" yet and there is room for improvement BUT he's certainly a lot further on than all of his critics and many of his fans thought he'd be. I think he's a lot further on than he was in week two against Washington.

And Dieter is absolutely correct. Jacksonville comeback is a bit of a stretch but Dallas? No doubt about that one. He brought us back against the Cowboys, in a big way. He was 12 of 18 for 83 yards and a TD in the first half.....9 of 18 for 172 and a TD in the 2nd half. Some may look at the 9 incompletions and 4 field goals. I look at the 172 yards and 19 points with zero turnovers. And if (if's and but's aside....I know the saying) Kupp catches a pass on his hands, that woulda been another comeback.

We can have all the analytical experts on the internet tell us where he needs to improve and how much but we can *see* the difference between week 2 and week 15. I don't need to know his DVOA or his red zone numbers or his 3rd down numbers or his 4th quarter numbers. I can see he's good and has progressed throughout the season. He has a good teacher and he's obviously a smart kid.....with a boatload of talent. He'll be fine, the rest of this year and in the future.

[aeneas1]

Yes having 20 TDs and no INTs is good.

But actually he can be more effective in the redzone. He does not have a high percentage of TDs per attempt. Others are higher. This just tells me he has room to get better and probably will.

You can measure this stat by looking at percentage of TDs per attempt inside the 20, but if you think about it inside the 20 is not as good a measure on TD percentage as inside the 10.

honestly, i didn't think you could top your 31+ yards is a deep pass nonsense but this is right up there... so now it's td % inside the 10 that's the better measure than redzone stats, the real yardstick? good friggin' grief... cutler has the 3rd highest td% inside the 10, bfd, he also ranks 30th in qb rating inside the 10 - clearly cutler is better than goff inside the 10 because, you know, he has a higher td %.

back on planet earth, goff:

inside opponent's 5 - 7 tds, 0 picks (114.8 qb rating, 4th best)
inside opponent's 10 - 12 tds, 0 picks (105.2 qb rating, 7th best)
inside opponent's 20 - 20 tds, 0 picks (105.7 qb rating, 5th best)

[PARAM]

honestly, i didn't think you could top your 31+ yards is a deep pass nonsense but this is right up there... so now it's td % inside the 10 that's the better measure than redzone stats, the real yardstick? good friggin' grief... cutler has the 3rd highest td% inside the 10, bfd, he also ranks 29th in qb rating inside the 10 - clearly cutler is better than goff inside the 10 because, you know, he has a higher td %.

back on planet earth, goff:

inside opponent's 5 - 7 tds, 0 picks (114.8 qb rating, 4th best)
inside opponent's 10 - 12 tds, 0 picks (105.2 qb rating, 7th best)
inside opponent's 20 - 20 tds, 0 picks (105.7 qb rating, 5th best)

Ever wonder what it must be like to watch a game with some of these guys?

BTW, inside the 5? That's Gurley territory!!!

[/zn/]

The Dallas game doesnt count as a comeback?
Jacksonville took a 14-10 lead and then the Rams came back

As a rule, when people say "comback" it's just shorthand for a 4th quarter comeback. If you directly ask Max I bet he would say that that is what he meant.

It's understood that momentum can shift or that 2nd half adjustments can get a team rolling in the 3rd quarter.

It's a very distinct test for a qb to keep his poise and execute when coming from behind at the bottom of the 4th quarter. Also as a rule in that situation the passing game is usually the main weapon and the opposing defense knows it.

When it comes to all that, this year Goff has been a bit up and down. He threw the INT against Washington, though that was early in the season. He was driving on Seattle but then Kupp dropped the game winner. He did execute well in the 2nd half against Dallas though that situation also depended on the Rams defense taking over the half.

There is something very pure in measuring a qb's 4th quarter comeback trends. They have to pass, time is an issue, a lot of what happens rests on him more than in any other game situation it would seem.

I've always counted 4th quarter comeback mojo as an important part of measuring a qb. Think of the qbs who were widely acknowledged as being great at this. Montana, Stabler, Staubach, Marino, Elway and "the drive"....

..

....

[ramsman34]

Except no one said "in spite of him."

There's going to be a range of views on a developing player and while I don't completely agree with Max, he made a fair point---Goff is probably not completely "there" yet. Again, that does not mean they win "in spite of him."

His character assessment shades that way, he was a bit extreme - and admittedly so. The premise being Goff wasn't ready to win in crunch time - not "not completely there yet", therefore, Rams would have to win somehow in crunch time in spite of Goff. Seems like a reasonably assumed premise by me, considering the timbre of the OP.

As I pointed out in my previous post, "ready" carries a function of time/experience with it. I don't think Goff is "there" because of time, whatever "there" actually means - quantitatively. I DO think he is ready enough to win the SB.

[/zn/]

honestly, i didn't think you could top your 31+ yards is a deep pass nonsense

And I think you will always live up to your "nonsense" nonsense. It's gotten so I don't even bother reading the posts that start that way.

Disagreeing with class is not that hard to learn.

Heck even I cross the line now and then (like here for example!) but for you it's a way of life.

[/zn/]

His character assessment shades that way, he was a bit extreme - and admittedly so. The premise being Goff wasn't ready to win in crunch time - not "not completely there yet", therefore, Rams would have to win somehow in crunch time in spite of Goff. Seems like a reasonably assumed premise by me, considering the timbre of the OP.

As I pointed out in my previous post, "ready" carries a function of time/experience with it. I don't think Goff is "there" because of time, whatever "there" actually means - quantitatively. I DO think he is ready enough to win the SB.

He didn't write a "character assessment" and I didn't see anything extreme.

You and I and Max all agree on this and are all saying it in different words: "ready" carries a function of time/experience with it. I don't think Goff is "there" because of time

Yeah. That's what all 3 of us are saying. Look at Max's words: I really don’t believe Goff is ready to win a game like this. I think he’s a year away.

You're saying what he's saying. He's saying what you're saying. I'm saying what both of you are saying.

..

[ramsman34]

As a rule, when people say "comback" it's just shorthand for a 4th quarter comeback. If you directly ask Max I bet he would say that that is what he meant.

It's understood that momentum can shift or that 2nd half adjustments can get a team rolling in the 3rd quarter.

It's a very distinct test for a qb to keep his poise and execute when coming from behind at the bottom of the 4th quarter. Also as a rule in that situation the passing game is usually the main weapon and the opposing defense knows it.

When it comes to all that, this year Goff has been a bit up and down. He threw the INT against Washington, though that was early in the season. He was driving on Seattle but then Kupp dropped the game winner. He did execute well in the 2nd half against Dallas though that situation also depended on the Rams defense taking over the half.

There is something very pure in measuring a qb's 4th quarter comeback trends. They have to pass, time is an issue, a lot of what happens rests on him more than in any other game situation it would seem.

I've always counted 4th quarter comeback mojo as an important part of measuring a qb. Think of the qbs who were widely acknowledged as being great at this. Montana, Stabler, Staubach, Marino, Elway and "the drive"....

..

....

We have a very small sample size to work with here. And those are hall of fame QBs. I don't think anyone is suggesting Goff is in that echelon currently. Again, a function of time and experience. I believe Goff has enough current experience to keep winning this season. And, I think he can win late in the 4th coming from behind, based on the players around him, his own ability and development, and his coach. Not scientific by any means -
observational and gut feeling.