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 by /zn/
7 years 9 months ago
 Total posts:   6939  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Hall of Fame

PARAM wrote:That's about it. If we give them Havenstein and Brown that's 3 but they've yet to establish themselves and if they do, how much credit goes to Fisher's clan and how much to Kromer? They couldn't develop Barrett Jones or Greg Robinson, two so called "studs". Before 2015, when they took 4 OL in the draft, they took 5 from 2012-2014 and none worked out. It seems they relied on experienced vets (had to), or at least brought them in with more frequency than rookies. Jake Long, Davin Joseph, Scott Wells, Chris Williams, Harvey Dahl and Barry Richardson.


Dahl was brought in the year before, 2011. He actually became one of the long list of OL injury losses starting in 2012. He went down in 2012 and then went down for the final time in 2013.

They relied on vets and pick-ups as a strategy. Snead talked about that in 2012. And in fact that;s one valid way to build a line. So, that was a conscious choice. It didn't work longterm because of losing people to injuries. And a lot of that was just stupid bad luck (Wells played every game in 2011 and did not start getting his long list of injuries and strange infections until after he signed with the Rams).

Robinson was a problem. Barrett Jones has never been "developed" by anyone, at least in part because he got injured too and that's in addition to the foot. He has been released from 3 different practice squads since the Rams (Steelers, Bears, Eagles). So IMO anyone who ever saw anything in him was just seeing a mirage. (The mirage seeing guys would include the Rams, Steelers, Bears, and Eagles.)

In terms of the new regime---the strategy is mostly the same. Vets--Whitworth, Sullivan, Blythe. I also expect them to put guys on the practice squad. The only difference from the 2012/13 strategy is that they inherited young guys, and consciously decided to go with them instead of drafting anyone.

 by dieterbrock
7 years 9 months ago
 Total posts:   11512  
 Joined:  Mar 31 2015
United States of America   New Jersey
Hall of Fame

Are we seriously trying to give credit to the Fisher regime for developing oline? Good grief. In addition to having the worst offense strategy in the league, they couldn't develop any olineman. Crap oline and crap wr. They basically replaced the wr core in this off season and 50% of the oline left behind . (So far)

 by /zn/
7 years 9 months ago
 Total posts:   6939  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Hall of Fame

dieterbrock wrote:Are we seriously trying to give credit to the Fisher regime for developing oline? Good grief. In addition to having the worst offense strategy in the league, they couldn't develop any olineman. Crap oline and crap wr. They basically replaced the wr core in this off season and 50% of the oline left behind . (So far)


Hyperbole aside, the OL was effective by any measure in the period I named. That's just a fact. And why not. Both Fisher and Boudreau had a combined decades long record of developing good OLs.

What killed those lines was first injuries, free agency, and then a massive infusion of inexperienced players.

 by dieterbrock
7 years 9 months ago
 Total posts:   11512  
 Joined:  Mar 31 2015
United States of America   New Jersey
Hall of Fame

/zn/ wrote:Hyperbole aside, the OL was effective by any measure in the period I named. That's just a fact. And why not. Both Fisher and Boudreau had a combined decades long record of developing good OLs.

What killed those lines was first injuries, free agency, and then a massive infusion of inexperienced players.

The only hyperbole is the "decades of long record developing good OL"
The oline sucked. The only semblance of Boudreau working wonders is when they pulled in all the cast offs, Barksdale, Richardson etc and managed to run the ball a bit. But the regime didnt build off that "success" it replaced it with cheap rookies who have not panned out.
Saffold is our best success story of the oline, and that is a sad commentary.
ow dont misunderstand, the offense didnt suck because we had a crappy oline, on the contrary. Many teams with good offense stratagy can work around sub standard oline play. Under Fisher the offense sucked whether the oline played well or nah
But IMO, Boudreau is to the Oline what Steve Loney was to our D

 by /zn/
7 years 9 months ago
 Total posts:   6939  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Hall of Fame

dieterbrock wrote:The only hyperbole is the "decades of long record developing good OL"
The oline sucked. The only semblance of Boudreau working wonders is when they pulled in all the cast offs, Barksdale, Richardson etc and managed to run the ball a bit. But the regime didnt build off that "success" it replaced it with cheap rookies who have not panned out.
Saffold is our best success story of the oline, and that is a sad commentary.
ow dont misunderstand, the offense didnt suck because we had a crappy oline, on the contrary. Many teams with good offense stratagy can work around sub standard oline play. Under Fisher the offense sucked whether the oline played well or nah
But IMO, Boudreau is to the Oline what Steve Loney was to our D


Lol, you're just itching for a Fisher fight. Aren't ya? 8-)

So much so that you sprinkled that post with counter-factual statements to act as bait.

I ain't takin the bait.

How about you just get in another shot then we move on. Deal? :D

 by PARAM
7 years 9 months ago
 Total posts:   13214  
 Joined:  Jul 15 2015
Barbados   Just far enough North of Philadelphia
Hall of Fame

/zn/ wrote:Robinson was a problem. Barrett Jones has never been "developed" by anyone, at least in part because he got injured too and that's in addition to the foot. He has been released from 3 different practice squads since the Rams (Steelers, Bears, Eagles). So IMO anyone who ever saw anything in him was just seeing a mirage. (The mirage seeing guys would include the Rams, Steelers, Bears, and Eagles.)

In terms of the new regime---the strategy is mostly the same. Vets--Whitworth, Sullivan, Blythe. I also expect them to put guys on the practice squad. The only difference from the 2012/13 strategy is that they inherited young guys, and consciously decided to go with them instead of drafting anyone.


Barrett Jones was injured coming out of college. He had skills. He had a strong NCAA resume. That's what people "saw".

On the later part, you're considering Blythe a vet? 8 GP with Indy last year, 1 start. I guess semantically, he's a vet but I wouldn't group him with Sullivan and Whitworth.

As far as "Robinson was a problem", we're going to see once the season starts. I know most Ram fans expect Stafford to make it through half a season at best but what if GRob excels in Detroit? What would that say about Fisher/Boudreau and your esposed theory on our O line problems?

Dieterbrock wrote:The only hyperbole is the "decades of long record developing good OL"
The oline sucked. The only semblance of Boudreau working wonders is when they pulled in all the cast offs, Barksdale, Richardson etc and managed to run the ball a bit. But the regime didnt build off that "success" it replaced it with cheap rookies who have not panned out.
Saffold is our best success story of the oline, and that is a sad commentary.
Now dont misunderstand, the offense didnt suck because we had a crappy oline, on the contrary. Many teams with good offense stratagy can work around sub standard oline play. Under Fisher the offense sucked whether the oline played well or not,
But IMO, Boudreau is to the Oline what Steve Loney was to our D


Boudreau had a decent resume but I have to wonder, was he better with vets than rookies? Who has he "developed" during his NFL OL coaching career? I don't know*.

*Took a quick cursory check on Boudreau at Detroit, New England, Miami, Carolina, Jacksonville, the Rams, Atlanta and the Rams again and didn't find any youngsters he "developed" that weren't high draft picks (Todd Wade, Khalif Barnes). He had an equal number of high draft pick failures during that time also (Barron, Sam Baker).

 by /zn/
7 years 9 months ago
 Total posts:   6939  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Hall of Fame

PARAM wrote:Barrett Jones was injured coming out of college. He had skills. He had a strong NCAA resume. That's what people "saw".

On the later part, you're considering Blythe a vet? 8 GP with Indy last year, 1 start. I guess semantically, he's a vet but I wouldn't group him with Sullivan and Whitworth.

As far as "Robinson was a problem", we're going to see once the season starts. I know most Ram fans expect Stafford to make it through half a season at best but what if GRob excels in Detroit? What would that say about Fisher/Boudreau and your esposed theory on our O line problems?



Boudreau had a decent resume but I have to wonder, was he better with vets than rookies? Who has he "developed" during his NFL OL coaching career? I don't know.


Jones was a mirage, which he has proven. 4 teams gave him a try. I know about the lisfranc foot injury from college, as does everyone, but he also hurt his back with the Rams...lifting weights.

I think it may be possible that PB WAS better with vets than rookies. But BETTER doesn't mean good v. completely awful, it means better, which can be more good and good.

But here are some of the young players he developed in his career. High draft picks include Willie Roaf, Todd Wade (good RT for Miami), Sam Baker. He made the 2008 Atlanta OL out of nothing. Before PB Dahl and Clabo were nothing--UDFA cast offs. Under him Dahl became good and Clabo became one of the best ROTs in the game at the time. Joel Hilgenberg became a good center under Boudreau. Dombroski, G/T, Saints. Did nothing year 1 in the league, developed under Boudreau. In New England Dave Wohlabaugh was a 2nd year guy and became a good starter after not doing as well as a rookie. Etc. etc. That's enough for now.

He;s been good. There's no really good reason for anyone to deny that.

Again, the issue with the Rams OLs from 2012-16 was that when they weren't extensively injured or massively inexperienced or both, they were decent lines. That's primarily the 2nd half of 2012 through most of 2013.

...

 by R4L
7 years 9 months ago
 Total posts:   1301  
 Joined:  May 08 2017
United States of America   Dayton, Ohio
Pro Bowl

/zn/ wrote:Lol, you're just itching for a Fisher fight. Aren't ya? 8-)

So much so that you sprinkled that post with counter-factual statements to act as bait.

I ain't takin the bait.

How about you just get in another shot then we move on. Deal? :D


LOL come on zn. All of your posts are counter-factual. Like the Rams offense didn't rank last in 2016, if you don't count the first 2 games. Donald is a free agent. Stuff thats only true to you. Sometimes the know it all mentality rubs people the wrong way. Ya know what I mean?

 by /zn/
7 years 9 months ago
 Total posts:   6939  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Hall of Fame

R4L wrote:LOL come on zn. All of your posts are counter-factual. Like the Rams offense didn't rank last in 2016, if you don't count the first 2 games. Donald is a free agent. Stuff thats only true to you. Sometimes the know it all mentality rubs people the wrong way. Ya know what I mean?


I said the Rams offense didn't rank last in 2016? Where?

I said Donald is a free agent? Where?

Lol. 8-)

 by R4L
7 years 9 months ago
 Total posts:   1301  
 Joined:  May 08 2017
United States of America   Dayton, Ohio
Pro Bowl

Rams have claimed OL Aaron Neary (Eagles), OL JJ Dielman (Bengals) and DL Quinton Jefferson (Seahawks) per Gonzales.

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109 posts Jul 04 2025