[SWAdude]

Good post.
For me... the Goff thing doesn't come close to a "concern".
He's awesome... I'm just waiting for that moment.

I am surprised anyone has any concerns.

This is the QB we have hoped for since the Everett days.

That was a good day back then.

We have been disappoint for so many times!

This is the real deal. HOF material. Not even Warner did I think that at the time.

[/zn/]

In post you responded to.

"Playoffs... a game with big potential repercussions for homefield advantage.. maybe a big comeback win. Those would be more along my lines of, "defining". "

Yeah I know, for you it has to be a big game.

That's what I meant by saying it means different things to different people.

I look for the overall consistency, which includes big games across time but isn't restricted to them. To me that means it's more just who he is. I like the idea of the team going into a big game already knowing that's who and what he is, beforehand.

Right now there are 2 "big game" last minute clutch "fails" when it comes to that...the Eagles last year and the Saints this year. But there's this year's Seattle game which points to the possibility of him being that guy.

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[SWAdude]

And that's true.

It's also true that he could NOT come back from a 38-35 deficit.

Not really. It was a 45-35 deficit if there is a big picture to be truthful.

I actually laughed when I first read your response. I totally respect your perspective though.

You are right he isn't Arron Rodgers yet. Arron Rodgers wasn't Arron Rodgers until he was in the league 8 years or so.

[/zn/]

Not really. It was a 45-35 deficit if there is a big picture to be truthful.

I actually laughed when I first read your response. I totally respect your perspective though.

You are right he isn't Arron Rodgers yet. Arron Rodgers wasn't Arron Rodgers until he was in the league 8 years or so.

'

All that means is that we're talking past each other about different things.

First off I don't get where you think that Goff is being criticized or diminished in ways that require a defense. That's just talking past each other again.

It's one thing. Clutch comeback ability late in a close game. The Rams did not score when they were down 38-35. In fact that was their first 3 and out. It's fair to ask if in THAT SITUATION he will be more like the Seattle game, where he did come through in those kinds of circumstances.

BTW Aaron Rodgers was not that clutch in those situations until recently. There's a good chance Goff can surpass him in that respect.

Other than that, I don't get comparing him to Rodgers as a 3rd year qb . That makes it sound like you think what's being discussed here is his entire set of skills as a qb. But it's not. That's not the topic. No one would expect a 3rd year qb to be like a much more veteran elite qb. So if you think that's what's being discussed, again, you're missing the topic.

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[SWAdude]

'

All that means is that we're talking past each other about different things.

First off I don't get where you think that Goff is being criticized or diminished in ways that require a defense. That's just talking past each other again.

It's one thing. Clutch comeback ability late in a close game. The Rams did not score when they were down 38-35. In fact that was their first 3 and out. It's fair to ask if in THAT SITUATION he will be more like the Seattle game, where he did come through in those kinds of circumstances.

BTW Aaron Rodgers was not that clutch in those situations until recently. There's a good chance Goff can surpass him in that respect.

Other than that, I don't get comparing him to Rodgers as a 3rd year qb . That makes it sound like you think what's being discussed here is his entire set of skills as a qb. But it's not. That's not the topic. No one would expect a 3rd year qb to be like a much more veteran elite qb. So if you think that's what's being discussed, again, you're missing the topic.

...

Not the first time for me after a thread with length.

What is the topic?

[/zn/]

Not the first time for me after a thread with length.

What is the topic?

Well it very quickly became, has Goff gotten to the point yet where he is a clutch qb who can play effectively in late comeback situations. That was focused on what he did after the Saints went up 38-35.

He has done that. The Seattle game, he engineered a drive that gave them the lead in the middle of the 4th quarter.

He didn't in the Saints game (after several magnificent drives for points to bring them back from the halftime deficit).

Some people say being 4th quarter clutch that way matters, some say it doesn't, some define what they're looking for differently, some say it's simply not a real issue, and so on.

It's a good discussion. Heated but civil and not stupidly personal, different views, people wrangling over how you assess stuff, everyone knows the Rams well so no dumb "he's just a system qb" level stuff, and EVERYONE in it is a big Goff advocate so there's none of that "if you hate the Rams so much move to North Korea" kinda stuff aimed at real or imagined "Goff haters".

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[dieterbrock]

Aaron Rodgers hasn’t come back to win a game after trailing in the 4th Q against a team with a winning record.
He did come back against Chicago in the opener but technically they were 0-0
I guess Rodgers hasn’t gotten there yet.

It’s a fallacy imo that Goff isn’t there yet. He came back against Dallas last year, Tennessee too. Has a couple this year.
The idea that the “elite” make these comebacks every time is just false.

[SWAdude]

Some people say being 4th quarter clutch that way matters, some say it doesn't, some define what they're looking for differently, some say it's simply not a real issue, and so on.

It is very civil which is nice.

And which side are you on?

[/zn/]

It is very civil which is nice.

And which side are you on?

Well in the abstract, Goff aside, I count being comeback clutch as an important top qb trait. Not the only important qb trait. But it's one of the ones I personally look for.

In terms of Goff, he has shown signs he has it but it's probably too soon to say. Really, from 2017 to now, it has only been 26 games (counting Atlanta). They were in that situation against Seattle in 2017, Phil in 2017, Tenn in 2017, Seattle in 2018, GB in 2018, and N.O. in 2018. They won 3 of those 6 which is 50%, and really, 50% is a good rate. BUT for me, 26 games is too soon to say. I just am kind of keeping track as it goes along.

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[SWAdude]

I believe you give Goff the right opportunity, he "can" deliver.

Not 100% of the time. It would be REAL just to get the point where its like Rodgers. You think its enough of a possibility.

That takes a record and that takes time. 25 games is not near enough.