[Hacksaw]

There is a sucker born every day. Just not as many rich suckers.

[The Ripper]

I see the timing Ripper. That money will come at a higher rate I would imagine. Not only because of their rati ng/rates but because of their track record regarding planning and fulfilling their contractual responsibilities.
You know when there is a tangible asset like a football stadium being proposed, the American capitalist way will fill in a lot of blanks. I have assumed all along that something was going to happen to make their attempt to "check all their boxes" (that saying frosts me) come about. It's getting closer to a reality that would make our position that much weaker,, and at least will perpetuate this divide until a decision is announced in months to come.

They refinanced them in like 2008 and are presently 5.25%. Which is why I have beat around the notion maybe they would retire them and issue new ones since today's prime is lower than 2008's. However that notion was quashed when they said they would just extend them as it appears they saw problems with getting votes for new ones so extension seemed the only viable answer.

So my guess without really digging into these bonds to find out if these bonds were General Obligation or Revenue, originally sold as OID or at a premium and any other original issuance questions. My guess without doing any of the home work to finger print just what kind of muni's these are. Is most muni's are sold to institutional investors and rich or more financially affluent individuals. So in this extension case where new funds are being raised they will probably give the current holders first buy to re-buy or extend holding them to the new maturity date. So depending how they were originally issued the current holders would just buy them again as a OID (Original Issue Discount) or at a premium. Which by just extending them in theory should make them attractive because they carry a 5.25 rate compared to now's prime rate of 3.25. Which StL would more than likely have to pay a slight higher rate as I think they as a city are only rated as A+. However even with that the rate for new issues would be less than 5.25 so they should already have a built in marketplace by extending and giving first buy to current holders.

The only thing that matters it this point is the refunding bonds from 2007 since the earlier bonds have been completely refunded. They're revenue bonds and are subject to annual appropriations.

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... s-Dome.cfm

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... 07-OS2.pdf


The real problem is the ratings, St Louis is A3 for non-essential purposes and the rating is at risk for another downgrade from Moodys. The other is the underwriting spread which could increase because of the uncertainty.

"The A3 rating on lease revenue debt issued for non-essential purposes reflects the credit characteristics inherent in the A1 GO rating, the non-essential nature of the funded projects and pledged assets (a convention center), and the annual risk of non-appropriation for lease payments."

WHAT COULD MAKE THE RATING GO DOWN

• Further declines in the city's financial reserve position

• Increase in debt levels

• Continued contraction of tax base valuations

• Failure to secure voter renewal of earnings tax

[Elvis]

[Hacksaw]

They are pulling out all the stops back there. Clearly showing that they don't want the team to leave.
Pins and needle time for our side. Nothing has really changes except for the likely completion of their box checking. They are squarely putting any failure on the team if it fails.
Now is the time for the task farce to make noise and strike, so get ready for a bunch of anti LA speak on the StL boards.

[The Ripper]

I posted the radio interview in it's own post but I can move it over here to keep just one post. He rivals Fabiani in spin.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/audio/charlie-debbie/

[moklerman]

It's all a farce. They KNOW that Kroenke won't be contributing $450M to a project that he won't control or own. This has always been a saving face exercise. They pissed Kroenke off, knew he was going to leave and have been in spin cycle ever since. Their whole mission is to vilify Kroenke and make it look like they did all they could to keep the team.

But it's BS.

[Hacksaw]

Unless ESK want's to stay, I too think he's gone despite the arguments of St.Lousians who perceive this whole thing differently. 180* differently. A farce perpetrated by the StL Task Farce.

[Rams the Legends live on]

The only thing that matters it this point is the refunding bonds from 2007 since the earlier bonds have been completely refunded. They're revenue bonds and are subject to annual appropriations.

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... s-Dome.cfm

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... 07-OS2.pdf


The real problem is the ratings, St Louis is A3 for non-essential purposes and the rating is at risk for another downgrade from Moodys. The other is the underwriting spread which could increase because of the uncertainty.

"The A3 rating on lease revenue debt issued for non-essential purposes reflects the credit characteristics inherent in the A1 GO rating, the non-essential nature of the funded projects and pledged assets (a convention center), and the annual risk of non-appropriation for lease payments."

WHAT COULD MAKE THE RATING GO DOWN

• Further declines in the city's financial reserve position

• Increase in debt levels

• Continued contraction of tax base valuations

• Failure to secure voter renewal of earnings tax

Ok so it was 2007 and not 2008 they refinanced . I am lost though bro as the new issue bonds that came out in 2007 carry a 5.25 rate and that is what they are extending. Refund bonds are nothing more than bonds which have been called so the old debt could be paid off and new debt issued and refinanced at a lower rate. Which ya say as well. So I am not sure what ya are saying here as the new bonds are the ones that carry the 5.25 rate.

The lower rating coming from having a high debt ratio I so get.

Also as well it makes sense now why they make payments out of the general fund. Since they are revenue bonds they in theory should be making the payments from the revenue. However since all the associated taxes for the project only brings in 4.1 million they have a short fall of 1.9 million. So just lump all the revenue into the general fund and make the payments from there. The further this goes on it really shows how much the city has been hiding or trying to hide financial details from the populace.

Oh never mind I got ya now. Ya have to excuse me a lot I will use bad terminology so yea my use of original should be notated as the refinanced bonds.

[Hacksaw]

I'm glad you helped yourself to figure it out Legends. lol

This plan of there's should be SOP in these kind of things. My late uncle in-law was the president of Anaheim Stadium / Autry's business partner, and was in charge of all the bonds that went into enclosing the Big A to bring the Rams down from LA. That was his business and boy would I like to pick his brain about all this stuff now.

BTW, I watched American Sniper again last night and that movie always reminds me of you and your RRF avi.

[Rams the Legends live on]

I'm glad you helped yourself to figure it out Legends. lol

This plan of there's should be SOP in these kind of things. My late uncle in-law was the president of Anaheim Stadium / Autry's business partner, and was in charge of all the bonds that went into enclosing the Big A to bring the Rams down from LA. That was his business and boy would I like to pick his brain about all this stuff now.

BTW, I watched American Sniper again last night and that movie always reminds me of you and your RRF avi.

LMAO.........yea every blue moon if I read something just enough and turn my head and squench my eyes I might have a chance,most times just over my head though........LOL

That's cool bro about your late uncle in law and cool family history. Ya know I am not sure if I ever saw that movie I know I saw some sniper movie with Tom Berenger so not sure if the same bro.