[aeneas1]

As Canuck posted:

....and then, just to put the Cherry atop the Sundae for this contrarian kvetcher, SI went on to catalogue the worst NFL QB Turnover Machines since 2017 till now:
WORST....JAMEIS WINSTON: 70 TURNOVERS
SECOND WORST...JARED GOFF: 62 TURNOVERS

That's just pathetic. Nobody can argue that this is acceptable QB play.

wouldn't you say that the number of games played should be considered when looking at those stats? if you look at turnovers per game played since 2017, goff ranks 16th in turnover rate (picks + lost fumbles) among qbs that played at least 10 games.

and here's a fun one:

goff - 62 turnovers in 3.5+ seasons, in 58 games played
warner - 63 turnovers in 3 season, in 48 games played

[bremillard]

wentz was elite? maybe if you believed some of the sports rag blurbs, but the guy has never been elite, not when you look at his numbers, the eagles offense has ranked in the top third of the league in offensive scoring only once in his 5 years under center, so it's not particularly surprising that he boasts a 35-30-1 career record... and you know who has more turnovers (picks + lost fumbles) per game than goff? yep.


what makes you think belichick didn't find mcvay's kryptonite? that other teams are copying? or do you think most qbs would excel in mcvay's scheme against stacked fronts, 0 and quarters cover?


you mean like when warner threw two pick-sixes in two different super bowls (for the rams and for the cards) which contributed greatly to both losses? or like when warner led all 35 qualifying qbs in turnovers (picks + lost fumbles) per game for the 1999-2003 stretch, or like when only 3 qbs coughed it up more than warner for the 1999-2001 stretch?

goff hasn't played well this season, and he's played like shit in some games, but when the rams offense continues to fail time and again vs certain defensive looks and certain coaches, imo you have to look beyond the guy under center.

You mean NFL Hall Of Fame QB Kurt Warner?

[moklerman]

wouldn't you say that the number of games played should be considered when looking at those stats? if you look at turnovers per game played since 2017, goff ranks 16th in turnover rate (picks + lost fumbles) among qbs that played at least 10 games.

and here's a fun one:

goff - 62 turnovers in 3.5+ seasons, in 58 games played
warner - 63 turnovers in 3 season, in 48 games played

Warner - 101 TD's(6.3%)
Goff - 98 TD's(4.7%)

Not to mention totally different era's and rules. You think Warner might have stayed more healthy and been even more efficient under McVay in today's NFL?

[aeneas1]

Well, I think apples to apples is more fair. Allen's last 4 games is 96.7 and that doesn't incorporate the 100+ rushing yards and 3 rushing TD's. So, I'd have to say "no", he isn't sucking.

ok, i see, so for the wk5-wk8 four-game stretch when allen booked a cumulative 79.2 qb rating, throwing a total of just 4 tds and 4 picks he was approaching "sucking" status as a qb like goff, but then he didn't suck because he had a good game after that, right? even tho he followed that good game with a cumulative 80.9 qb rating in his last 2 games that included 3 tds and 3 picks... do i have that right?

[AvengerRam]

79.7 passer rating the last 4 games is quickly approaching that range, wouldn't you say? And that's against 2 of the worst passing defenses in the league.

No, I wouldn't say that at all. His rating was, in fact, over 96 in 3 of the last 5 games (and, in 2 of them, he outplayed Russell Wilson and Tom Brady).

Inconsistent and "sucks" are not the same thing.

[bremillard]

wouldn't you say that the number of games played should be considered when looking at that number? if you divide qb turnovers per game played since 2017, goff ranks 16th among qbs that have played at least 10 games.

and here's a fun one:

goff - 62 turnovers in 3.5+ seasons, in 58 games played
warner - 63 turnovers in 3 season, in 48 games played

Goff has already been relegated, because of poor play, to a dink/dunk game with hopes for a lot of YAC. He still flops. Warner ran the Greatest Show On Turf. It was a wide open offense that scored a lot of points regardless of turnovers. This comparison is worthless.

[aeneas1]

Warner - 101 TD's(6.3%)
Goff - 98 TD's(4.7%)

warner - a qb that played for an oc that was all about throwing the ball downfield, into the endzone, that ran up the score.
goff - a qb that plays for an oc that loves short throws and yacs, who ranks 8th in the league in run ratio, who plays not to lose.

[aeneas1]

Goff has already been relegated, because of poor play, to a dink/dunk game with hopes for a lot of YAC. He still flops. Warner ran the Greatest Show On Turf. It was a wide open offense that scored a lot of points regardless of turnovers. This comparison is worthless.

ok, to be clear:

63 turnovers by a qb in 48 games isn't unacceptable?
but 62 turnovers by a qb in 58 games is unacceptable?

or are you saying qb turnovers are acceptable if you win?

[moklerman]

ok, i see, so for the wk5-wk8 four game stretch when allen booked a cumulative 79.2 qb rating, throwing a total of just 4 tds and 4 picks he was approaching "sucking" status as a qb like goff, but then he didn't suc because he had a good game after that, right? even tho he followed that good game with a cumulative 80.9 qb rating in his last 2 games that included 3 tds and 3 picks... do i have that right?

Well, that's not what you said, now is it? But, that 4 game stretch wasn't Allen playing at a high level. But, 5TD and 5TO is quite a bit better than 4TD and 10TO.

[moklerman]

warner - a qb that played for an oc that was all about throwing the ball downfield, that ran up the score.
goff - a qb that plays for an oc that loves short throws and yacs, who ranks 8th in the league in run ratio, who plays not to lose.

Wow. So now McVay is holding Goff back?