[/zn/]

so as far as you're concerned, all of these guys have played better than goff over the past two years? do i have that right?

The last 2 years includes a major phase (2018 starting w/ Detroit) where Goff played 5 subpar games out of 8. So if nothing else, all the other qbs listed are more consistent. Which should come as no surprise since they're veterans and he was a third year qb in 2018.

That's the problem with relying on statistical averages from whole seasons. Those kinds of numbers can hide things like those 5 of 8 games at the end.

Not everything that happened in those games was on Goff (same with the better games before that) but some of it was.

So I look for him to become more consistent.

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I think a more complete discussion of Goff would include room for honest debate about where he can improve as a 4th year qb. I don't think that really happens when there's this constant litany of complaint that that discussion is even taking place. You can like the guy and recognize his accomplishments and still see room for him (as a young qb) to improve...the 2 things are not contradictory.

I have no problem with a discussion taking place concerning if/how Goff can improve. If fact, I enjoy it. He has areas he has room for improvement.

For instance:

Taking over and delivering when his offensive line doesn't play their best or when the run game falters.

But when the discussion morphs into will he be / can he be elite, then I have to roll my eyes. I think he's very close to that level already.....provided he makes minor improvements in certain areas.....which he has already demonstrated a propensity to do from 2016 to 2017 to 2018. I'm not complaining about an honest, reasonable discussion about his improvement, so you're misreading my viewpoint. I'm complaining about the idea he has to be one of the absolute best, which is 90% subjective and 10% statistically based. If he's just real good he's worth the draft slot, the draft chips and the money.

The last 2 years includes a major phase (2018 starting w/ Detroit) where Goff played 5 subpar games out of 8.

5 subpar games out of 8. That would have to be, Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia and which other 2? New Orleans and the Superbowl or Dallas and the Superbowl?

I've got him playing 3 subpar games out of the last 8.....Detroit, Chicago and the SB.

[/zn/]

I have no problem with a discussion taking place concerning if/how Goff can improve. If fact, I enjoy it. He has areas he has room for improvement.

For instance:

Taking over and delivering when his offensive line doesn't play their best or when the run game falters.

But when the discussion morphs into will he be / can he be elite, then I have to roll my eyes. I think he's very close to that level already.....provided he makes minor improvements in certain areas.....which he has already demonstrated a propensity to do that from 2016 to 2017 to 2018.

To each his own. But personaly I don't roll my eyes at that. He's not elite yet. An elite qb would be more consistent across a whole season. And, to echo you, would already be better at delivering when the OL doesn't come through. Not sure I would expect that of most 3rd year qbs.

Whether or not a young qb is elite? To me that's a fair discussion. There will be different views on something like that.

This era also makes it hard to assess the numbers, because passing stats are inflated all over the league compared to prior years. So we know he has enough to take good advantage of that. The consistency will come in when he has a stronger reaction to things like OL problems.

They're even working on that. This off-season, they worked on/are working on getting through progressions more quickly when the defense gives them an unexpected post-snap look. As it happens that kind of quicker adjustment and response is also something you need if the OL is allowing pressure.

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[aeneas1]

The last 2 years includes a major phase (2018 starting w/ Detroit) where Goff played 5 subpar games out of 8. So if nothing else, all the other qbs listed are more consistent. Which should come as no surprise since they're veterans and he was a third year qb in 2018.

so rivers finishing the season with a 51.7 and 60.4 qb rating while leading the bolts to an average of 12 offensive points per game is an example veteran consistency? and not being able to lead the bolts past the divisional round yet again is another example of veteran consistency? and luck was consistent last season? more consistent than goff? really? big ben? the pillar of veteran consistency over the last few years? really? really? as far as goff's "subpar" run starting with the lions game is concerned, give it up already, such nonsense.

[aeneas1]

But when the discussion morphs into will he be / can he be elite, then I have to roll my eyes. I think he's very close to that level already.....provided he makes minor improvements in certain areas.....which he has already demonstrated a propensity to do from 2016 to 2017 to 2018.

goff's a "big mac", pedestrian, any tier but first, blah, blah, blah... honestly, i don't know what games some of these guys are watching, rivers, good grief, roethlisberger, mama mia.... here's a riddle, who has a higher postseason qb rating, the 24-year-old goff or mr. 6-year vet luck?

[aeneas1]

me?

- roethlisberger? no way.

- rivers? no way.

- mayfield? don't like what he showed against winning teams last year, i would have to pass at the moment.

- wentz? tough one if he had a history of health, no brainer since he doesn't.

- brees? i dunno... choked big time at home in the cc game last year, has taken the saints to the playoffs just 3 times in the last 7 years, he's a hundred years old, and what would he look like in an offense that doesn't make a living throwing short to backs? pass.

- ryan? no thanks.

- prescott? yeah right.

- brady? at 42? tempting but no.

- luck? if you would have asked me after his 3rd year, probably, now? i'd pass.

- rodgers? at 35? missed half the season two years ago, led the pack to 18th in offensive scoring last year, are his hall of fame days over? this is a tough one.

- wilson? probably.

- mahomes? probably.

[/zn/]

me?

- roethlisberger? no way.

- rivers? no way.

- mayfield? don't like what he showed against winning teams last year, i would have to pass at the moment.

- wentz? tough one if he had a history of health, no brainer since he doesn't.

- brees? i dunno... choked big time at home in the cc game last year, has taken the saints to the playoffs just 3 times in the last 7 years, he's a hundred years old, and what would he look like in an offense that doesn't make a living throwing short to backs? pass.

- ryan? no thanks.

- prescott? yeah right.

- brady? at 42? tempting but no.

- luck? if you would have asked me after his 3rd year, probably, now? i'd pass.

- rodgers? at 35? missed half the season two years ago, led the pack to 18th in offensive scoring last year, are his hall of fame days over? this is a tough one.

- wilson? probably.

- mahomes? probably.

Do you mean forever or just for a game?

If it's just for a game, all good veterans would bring the "veteran qb" advantage Goff lacks at the moment. But just at the moment.

It's hard to think of any good veteran qbs who would NOT win with this offense and coach.

BUT if you mean a permanent swap--in that case the list gets shorter. Goff's relative disadvantage compared to good veteran qbs (ie. that he's not yet as experienced) will evaporate with more experience, obviously.

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I would take Mahomes today but I wouldn't swap Goff for anybody. I like his talent, his competitive nature, his steady balance (in wins and losses) and his upside. I don't know that there's a better fit for the Rams and Los Angeles.

[aeneas1]

for good, say goodbye to jared and say hello to [insert name here].

[max]

so as far as you're concerned, all of these guys have played better than goff over the past two years? do i have that right?

I dont limit my evaluation to the last 2 years. I look at their entire body of work and juxtapose that with where they are right now.

The question I ask myself is based on those things who do I think is better than Goff right now. All those guys I listed are better.

If you’re trying to sell Goff as being in that top tier category based on some stats you pull out over the past 2 years, I’m not buying it, and neither does any reasonable unbiased evaluator.