[aeneas1]

regular season, trailing in the 4th quarter:
kurt warner (1999-2001) - 5 tds, 6 picks, 80.8 qb rating, won 3, lost 6.
jared goff (2018) - 1 td, 0 picks, 105.5 qb rating, won 2, lost 1.

Goff missed a pretty easy throw (for him) to Robert Woods at a critical time in the game.

and that can be said about every nfl qb that's stepped foot on the field, including every qb in canton... but that's not what was being challenged in this thread, that goff threw a bad pass in crunch time, instead it's this kind of stuff:

"...the D gave the ball back twice to the offense with a chance to take the lead -once at 35-35 and again at 38-35. Both times the O failed to score."

"But Goff has got to get better late in the game in clutch situations."

"And yes, Goff left plays on the field. He did not play well."

goff has been nails all season, and was nails in the saints game, but nails to some means scoring on 6 of your last 6 possessions to overcome a 31-point deficit in one half of football, i.e. a 21-point hole, plus an additional 10 points on top of that, and to some the defense put goff in a position to win and he failed... honestly, it blows my mind.

is goff above criticism? of course not... but good grief, the rams were the last undefeated team in the league, 8-0, thanks in large part to goff's play, yet the first time the rams come up short, in a game that the defense gets blown off the field to the tune of 45 offensive points, goff's 35-point effort is called into question. just wow.

[max]

McVay said in his presser...

When we got it back to (tied at) 35 (points), those next two drives were great examples that we can learn from and figure out a way to try to prevent them from getting any points. I thought defense did a good job just holding them to a field goal and then we end up going three-and-out. I've got to put our guys in some better spots, but I think ultimately, for us as a team, we've got to find a way that when you get back into it, then you've got to find a way to finish those types of games as opposed to just making it competitive. That's always our goal as a team, but we use every opportunity, whether you win or lose, as something that you can learn from.

This is exactly to my point. As McVay said, “I've got to put our guys in some better spots, but I think ultimately, for us as a team, we've got to find a way that when you get back into it, then you've got to find a way to finish”

It so good to hear him talk like this. That’s the talk of a winner.

[aeneas1]

These are very slight overstatements, imo, that don't require the response they're getting. That's my two cents.
And... YES... HOF QBs leave throws on the field.
The difference here is that those QBs have, by and large, had *defining moments* where they came up with big throws in critical situations in big games.

The bottom line is that we haven't seen that from Goff in the NFL. No amount of numbers will change that.

It doesn't mean he *won't*. It doesn't mean he *can't*.

It just means he hasn't.

seems that we're getting a bit off course here, no? the gist of this thread, this debate, is that some not only think goff isn't very effective in the 4th, with the game on the line (even tho he was 2-0 this season when trailing in the 4th prior to the saints game, with a 105 qb rating), but some also think he didn't play well against the saints, and that the defense did their job in giving goff and the offense a chance at a win. i find that mindset hard to understand.

if we want to talk about defining moments, i've seen more than a few in his young career, his perfect qb rating / 5 td performance against the vikes for one, his qb sneak to seal the hags game for another, his dramatic games against the cowboys and niners last season in front of a national audience, but maybe i have a low bar? whatever the case, if he continues to play at the same high level, it seems likely he'll book even more on a bigger, postseason stage.

[PARAM]

Here's another argument for Goff.

[/zn/]

seems that we're getting a bit off course here, no? the gist of this thread, this debate, is that some not only think goff isn't very effective in the 4th, with the game on the line

Who is this "some" who said that?

It seems to me that different people said somewhat different things.

[FMulder]

I love Goff’s demeanor overall and am really really impressed with his desire to both throw the ball downfield vs the easy check-down, as well as his ability to throw into some really tight windows.

I’m not saying he is Joe Montana but he has the brass balls to win games when things aren’t looking too spiffy. He and them coming back from a 21(!) point def vs NO is huge.

The more you face those situations the more you find out what you have, and for me Goff is on his way to being someone who can snatch wins when losses were likely. I see a ton of upside and him learning through experience, in a relatively short time. Obviously he won’t win them all but there were a TON of Rams QBs who I knew would NEVER win a game at during the last drive.

I like where he is going and what he has become

[aeneas1]

too hard a judge? ha ha, maybe, maybe not, tough love i'm thinkin'... hey, btw, i don't think i've ever seen you in gameday chats, what's the deal, do you have a life or something?

[SWAdude]

There is so many great points of view with Goff on this thread.

We have a 24 year old QB with 25 legitimate starts in his young career (I don't count the first year just happy he survived such inept coaching) and the biggest possible concern I can see here is he is not closing out games that might be winnable. I can't see a legitimate trend here at this point.

What I saw Sunday was a calm, composed young QB who came back from a 21 deficit and damn near won what appeared to be a game we could not win just before the half.

GSOT was fast and fun. And it burned out just as fast. This offense with this QB is smart and feels like it is going to be successful for many years to come.

9-1 and my only concern is defense. Zero on offense.

[/zn/]

Maybe some are blaming Goff... I look at it more as they acknowledge Goff didn't go out and win it. Different things, imo. He *was* put in a position to win the game, or at least get a lead.
It didn't happen.
He also had a fantastic game.

And.. yes... people are quick to forget he had come-from-behind victories in tough situations. I'm one that considered his performance at Seattle fantastic.

Those were all great performances, but I don't think any measure up to what I'd call a "defining moment", personally.
Playoffs... a game with big potential repercussions for homefield advantage.. maybe a big comeback win. Those would be more along my lines of, "defining".

Maybe I'm too hard a judge. But he hasn't had that moment for me. Last year? Philadelphia.. sack, fumble. Not his fault, you could argue, but that happened.
Atlanta at home. Loss.

And... again... I don't know anyone who's a bigger Goff fan than me.

I'm not sure what a defining moment is to you, but we all have our ways of seeing. So this is not disagreement as much as just a case of "turn the dial a bit to a different view that probably is not all that different."

For me coming through against Seattle counts as a clutch moment. On that drive, they were down 30-31. They start at their own 18 and go 61 yards to kick the winning FG with 6:09 left. On that drive Goff goes 3 of 4 for 51 yards and 3 first downs. (Everyone knows this, just puttin it in black n white.)

We know what happened in N.O. For me that narrow window at the end against the Saints counts as NOT coming through in the 4th quarter clutch moment.

So two games, it's 1/1. 50% is a good percentage in that situation.

But it's only 2 games. If he has it in him--the clutch gene--it will show. I think he does. The Seattle game says he does, and I don't think the Saints game says he doesn't.

.

[/zn/]

What I saw Sunday was a calm, composed young QB who came back from a 21 deficit and damn near won what appeared to be a game we could not win just before the half.
.

And that's true.

It's also true that he could NOT come back from a 38-35 deficit.

Put that up with the Seattle game and he's 50% in those situations.

It's impossible to say it's a "concern" though I don't see anyone saying it is. After a while what will his percentage be in those situations? If it stays around 50%, that's good. Not everyone does.

...