[ramsww]

Don't agree. The Rams got offers for Stafford. Since the Rams swallow the prorated bonus in a trade, Donald's cap hits for a trading team in 23 and 24 would be 13.5 M and 21.6 respectively. For Kupp it would be 10 M and 6 M. That's far from prohibitive.

And we can discuss this stuff respectfully.

The offense is intact. It's the same offense with minor changes. There are a lot of 2nd through 4th year new starters on defense, but that's not a team rebuild.

A couple points. None of the 3 were traded. You can speculate whether they wanted to or could not get the value. The O is intact. Never an argument there but it was the 32nd rated Offense last year. That dead money on top of what they already have this year and what draft picks do you get for three 30 year old-plus vets ALL coming off major injuries? Come on man, we can be respectful but how about some common sense?

[/zn/]

A couple points. None of the 3 were traded. You can speculate whether they wanted to or could not get the value. The O is intact. Never an argument there but it was the 32nd rated Offense last year. That dead money on top of what they already have this year and what draft picks do you get for three 30 year old-plus vets ALL coming off major injuries? Come on man, we can be respectful but how about some common sense?

Not really interested in a perpetual back n forth. But I will say that the offense was 32nd because it had a league historical record setting series of OL injuries. The Rams played more OL combinations in 22 than any other team ever has. They played 16 different guys at 4 positions, in a situation where the replacements were getting injured, and in some cases even the replacements for the injured replacements got injured. To use a simple bland understatement, no offense does well under those conditions. In fact we've seen teams with half or even a third of the OL injuries the Rams suffered in 22 whose seasons were wrecked by it. They also lost their starting qb and record-setting lead WR.

With all due respect, you can't ignore massive facts like those and then claim you're on the side of common sense.

[ramsww]

Not really interested in a perpetual back n forth. But I will say that the offense was 32nd because it had a league historical record setting series of OL injuries. The Rams played more OL combinations in 22 than any other team ever has. They played 16 different guys at 4 positions, in a situation where the replacements were getting injured, and in some cases even the replacements for the injured replacements got injured. To use a simple bland understatement, no offense does well under those conditions. In fact we've seen teams with half or even a third of the OL injuries the Rams suffered in 22 whose seasons were wrecked by it. They also lost their starting qb and record-setting lead WR.

With all due respect, you can't ignore massive facts like those and then claim you're on the side of common sense.

Sounds like a lot of excuses. Bottom line, worst offense in the NFL last year. Excuses aside, that’s how they’re measured as a starting point. I’m not saying it’s right, it’s just the reality until they light up someone, anyone, again. The Denver game was fun. If they want to be considered a contender again the O can’t rest on their laurels.

[ramsww]

I will add, the reports from camp are improving, I’m really glad they didn’t trade Stafford, AD or Kupp and there are even signs of life for the Defense which will eventually find it’s way. If some here say by mid-season, better late than never but this preseason should offer more to see than in years past when almost all 22 starters sat it out.

[snackdaddy]

Call it rebuilding or retooling. The fact is, they are coming off a 5 win season. You're only as good as your last season until you prove otherwise.

No one knows how good or bad they will be. We can only go by what we know. We're replacing more than half the starters on defense. Ramsey, Gaines, Robinson, Scott, Rapp, Wagner. So whether or not its first year players or 4th year players replacing them, the fact is the experience is not there.

[PARAM]

Sounds like a lot of excuses. Bottom line, worst offense in the NFL last year. Excuses aside, that’s how they’re measured as a starting point. I’m not saying it’s right, it’s just the reality until they light up someone, anyone, again. The Denver game was fun. If they want to be considered a contender again the O can’t rest on their laurels.

Facts = excuses but projection = reality?

Do you truthfully believe, they are the least bit concerned about how they're "considered"? That's a fan's world not a player's.

But I'll play along. Consider McVay's offensive mind combined with Stafford, an improved O line, a solid WR corp and a bulked up Akers, my bet is NOBODY has them starting at #32. I don't know how anybody, in an honest discussion, can use 'they were the #32 offense last year, so why should we expect them to be better' argument.

[ramsww]

Facts = excuses but projection = reality?

Do you truthfully believe, they are the least bit concerned about how they're "considered"? That's a fan's world not a player's.

But I'll play along. Consider McVay's offensive mind combined with Stafford, an improved O line, a solid WR corp and a bulked up Akers, my bet is NOBODY has them starting at #32. I don't know how anybody, in an honest discussion, can use 'they were the #32 offense last year, so why should we expect them to be better' argument.

you just quoted something I never remotely said but while you’re at it where do you go down from 32? . With the question marks they have (please don’t tell me you’re arguing this) I would still say they’re in the top 20 of offenses. If they can win or at least compete in the 1st three games they may be top 15 but to get to top 10 let alone 5 they simply can’t get there by losing shootouts and going 1-4. I don’t care how many points they score. They have to win some meaningful games not just Indy and none are gimmes this year.

[Hacksaw]

Nobody knows what the future holds. How many football fans anywhere would have though the Rams would lay that big an egg 12 months ago?

Like many I believe the offense will be fine as long as the Oline holds up.
Last years D wasn't very good either so isn't it a possibility there could be improvement there too by the change of personnel.
Or if the younger fresher legs might do better in RH's system.
Not saying they will but I can't confidently say they wont either.

This should be an interesting and informative preseason.
I'd like to see them start trying to win them too to develop a taste for it!!

[PARAM]

they simply can’t get there by losing shootouts and going 1-4. I don’t care how many points they score.

When a team scores the most points, they're the #1 scoring offense.
When a team amasses the most yards, they're the #1 offense.
Winning has nothing to do with it!!
Honestly... I don't care where they rank if they win.

But we were discussing the #32, 2022 offense vs the coming 2023 offense. Now you want to discuss winning? WTF does winning mean to offensive/defensive rankings? More wins doesn't make the offense better, it makes the team better.

Which Rams offense was better? 1999 (16 wins), 2000 (10 wins) or 2001 (16 wins)? And here's a scary thought. Warner only played 12 games in the best offense of those 3 years. Imagine how much better the offense would have been had he played 17 games!!

[PARAM]

Nobody knows what the future holds. How many football fans anywhere would have though the Rams would lay that big an egg 12 months ago?

Like many I believe the offense will be fine as long as the Oline holds up.
Last years D wasn't very good either so isn't it a possibility there could be improvement there too by the change of personnel.
Or if the younger fresher legs might do better in RM's system.
Not saying they will but I can't confidently say they wont either.

This should be an interesting and informative preseason.
I'd like to see them start trying to win them too to develop a taste for it!!

Great points.

Truer words were never spoken...."nobody knows"

But you want McVay to try to win preseason games?
I'm just hoping he plays them much more than normal (but gets them out of there at the appropriate time).