[aeneas1]

The Rams were 16-2 regardless of how many TO's they had..

the 1999-2001 gsot rams were 1-8 when -3 or more in turnovers during the regular season and postseason, in 2001 they were 0-3.

[AvengerRam]

the 1999-2001 gsot rams were 1-8 when -3 or more in turnovers during the regular season and postseason, in 2001 they were 0-3.

Okay, but what if the Patriots' cheating (spying, holding) contributed to the turnovers that were committed?

[aeneas1]

Okay, but what if the Patriots' cheating (spying, holding) contributed to the turnovers that were committed?

sure, cheating may have contributed, who knows, it's just that the saints, bucs, panthers (twice), giants, falcons and niners all managed to take the ball away from the rams 3 or more times as well in 2001, presumably without cheating? also, fwiw, the pats took the ball away from the rams 3 times earlier in the season, in their first meeting, but unlike the super bowl the rams defense helped out and took the ball away from the patriots 3 times as well.

[AvengerRam]

sure, cheating may have contributed, who knows, it's just that the saints, bucs, panthers (twice), giants, falcons and niners all managed to take the ball away from the rams 3 or more times as well in 2001, presumably without cheating? also, fwiw, the pats took the ball away from the rams 3 times earlier in the season, in their first meeting, but unlike the super bowl the rams defense helped out and took the ball away from the patriots 3 times as well.

Cheating is wrong.
There is evidence that the Patriots may have cheated.
Cheating may have impacted the outcome.
It might not have.
The Patriots got off easy if they did cheat.
The NFL seemed more concerned with its image than it did in uncovering the truth.
Martz's offenses, for all the great things they did, turned the ball over too much.

I think we probably can agree that all of these things are true!

[moklerman]

the 1999-2001 gsot rams were 1-8 when -3 or more in turnovers during the regular season and postseason, in 2001 they were 0-3.

I thought we were talking about the offense and how often they turned the ball over? Turnover differential is a similar but different conversation.

The Rams proved many times over that they could turn the ball over and still win so implying that it didn't matter that the Patriots cheated because of the Rams turnovers doesn't make sense for multiple reasons.

Sure, as a rule, teams that turn the ball over usually lose. But the Rams were not bound by that rule. They were unique. And it took various forms of cheating for the outmatched Patriots to beat them, not to mention some serious help from the referees.

[snackdaddy]

I thought we were talking about the offense and how often they turned the ball over? Turnover differential is a similar but different conversation.

The Rams proved many times over that they could turn the ball over and still win so implying that it didn't matter that the Patriots cheated because of the Rams turnovers doesn't make sense for multiple reasons.

Sure, as a rule, teams that turn the ball over usually lose. But the Rams were not bound by that rule. They were unique. And it took various forms of cheating for the outmatched Patriots to beat them, not to mention some serious help from the referees.

That game was a few months after 9/11. The country was still reeling from that. And there was this underdog with the name "Patriots". What better way to make the country feel better than to see the heavy underdog with that name come out on top? Almost like it was fate to many.

I don't know if there was any deep conspiracy like some sites believe. I don't think so. But refs are human. Its quite possible they were feeling the emotion of it all and maybe were a little biased out there. The Patriots defenders were sure able to take more liberties with the contact downfield. Maybe it was the old "let em play" we see in big games? Or maybe not.

[Hacksaw]

The Patriots defenders were sure able to take more liberties with the contact downfield.

That seems to be a common theme in Boston victories.

[aeneas1]

belichick punched the rams offense in the mouth in both super bowls by playing extremely physical and beating up receivers... here's the rams first drive, watch what the pats do to reynolds who is lined up left and crosses behind the line of scrimmage with the intention of being the underneath option in the flat, they did this all game, and did it to martz in the sb as well:

[Hacksaw]

Let's do that next time.