[PARAM]

Oh there are definitely other categories. Plenty of middle tier QBs. But Goff is in the "sucks" category. Check out the ESPN article above. His turnovers are second to only Wentz, who is probably the worst QB in the league right now.

Right. Those are "the numbers". Maybe a list will help.

Wentz 18 turnovers (14 int, 4 fum lost) Phila (3-6-1)
Goff 16 (12 and 4) Rams (7-4) **7 of them in 2 losses
Cousins 14 (11 and 3) Vikings (5-6)
Wilson 13 (10 and 3) Seattle (7-3)
Jones 13 (9 and 4) NYG (4-7)
Brady 12 (11 and 1) Bucs (7-5)
Murray 11 (9 and 2) Cards (6-5)

Some pretty good names on that list. "Elite" QBs too. And only 1 has his team in better position than Goff but Goff had a better game than he did when they faced off. It's the Rams defense that has them in that position? Like the 35 they allowed in Buffalo? Or the 24 they allowed in Tampa? It's a team game. Offense and Defense. Doesn't Tampa have a top 5 defense? If Goff were as bad as Wentz, the Rams record would be much worse.

Actually Tampa now has the #7 defense. They were #3 prior to the Rams/Bucs kickoff 2 weeks ago....

[BuiltRamTough]

We’ll see how this year goes but the Rams should look for a QB next year. Goff will be under center next season but if McVay likes a QB in the draft he should take him.

[moklerman]

Would it surprise people to know that Goff and Baker Mayfield have the exact same passer rating? So, think of where you rate Mayfield and that's what the rest of the world thinks of Goff at this point.

And, as I've pointed out before, this isn't a case of cherry-picking or a recent slump. In the 36 games since the epic KC game, Goff has an 85.1 rating. That's everything. Every scenario and matchup in over 2 years straight worth of games. Goff's production dropped off after that one game and it has remained down there for over 2 years.

Is it reasonable to think he will pull out of it or is it more likely that he's been figured out? I don't know for sure but it sure seems to me that he continues to struggle with consistency and he continues to struggle with the various shortcomings we hope he'll get better at. I recognize that my bias interferes with my objectivity at times but I also feel like we're in the same place we were in '18 when McVay had to start Goff against AZ and SF to end the year. He was struggling then and they needed to get him some confidence and rhythm heading into the playoffs.

His numbers looked good in those two games but I never felt like he actually alleviated any concerns. He displayed the same tendencies that were problematic against good defenses but got to pad his stats against bad defenses. IMO, McVay wanted to rest the offense in that last game against SF but he was forced to keep them all out there to try and get Goff into rhythm.

I think they will have to do something similar now. Hopefully AZ is still the advantageous matchup we've held over them but NE is still tough. Goff is rattled and not even playing up to his ability at this point. Even the so-called good games against SEA and TB were inconsistent and somewhat clunky from him.

He's in a nose dive and hopefully it's him working through some growing pains that he can grow out of. And quickly. The more he struggles, the more skeptical I become. It seems too much like all the tricks and confidence builders that McVay has are being taken away and/or aren't working.

[Haden]

Very good summary moklerman

[PARAM]

Would it surprise people to know that Goff and Baker Mayfield have the exact same passer rating? So, think of where you rate Mayfield and that's what the rest of the world thinks of Goff at this point.

And, as I've pointed out before, this isn't a case of cherry-picking or a recent slump. In the 36 games since the epic KC game, Goff has an 85.1 rating. That's everything. Every scenario and matchup in over 2 years straight worth of games. Goff's production dropped off after that one game and it has remained down there for over 2 years.

Is it reasonable to think he will pull out of it or is it more likely that he's been figured out? I don't know for sure but it sure seems to me that he continues to struggle with consistency and he continues to struggle with the various shortcomings we hope he'll get better at. I recognize that my bias interferes with my objectivity at times but I also feel like we're in the same place we were in '18 when McVay had to start Goff against AZ and SF to end the year. He was struggling then and they needed to get him some confidence and rhythm heading into the playoffs.

His numbers looked good in those two games but I never felt like he actually alleviated any concerns. He displayed the same tendencies that were problematic against good defenses but got to pad his stats against bad defenses. IMO, McVay wanted to rest the offense in that last game against SF but he was forced to keep them all out there to try and get Goff into rhythm.

I think they will have to do something similar now. Hopefully AZ is still the advantageous matchup we've held over them but NE is still tough. Goff is rattled and not even playing up to his ability at this point. Even the so-called good games against SEA and TB were inconsistent and somewhat clunky from him.

He's in a nose dive and hopefully it's him working through some growing pains that he can grow out of. And quickly. The more he struggles, the more skeptical I become. It seems too much like all the tricks and confidence builders that McVay has are being taken away and/or aren't working.

Interesting post. Succinct take on Goff's "decline", right after the KC game. That decline started with Patricia's Lions D, giving Goff and McVay's O a hard time. After the Chicago game and then the SB, it was said Patricia and Belichick had McVay figured out. Some said they had Goff figured out. And that others would copy that blueprint. But I would think if you have the OC figured out, the QB is gonna look figured out too. And who made the Rams/Goff look bad this year? A Belichick disciple and someone who knows McVay extremely well. The other loss? We can hardly say 32 points is having someone "figured out". We can also say, "even in the wins Goff doesn't look good" and that's true. Many have maintained since the first week of 2017, "Goff is just a product of McVay's system". Isn't it possible he's now a victim of it?

[aeneas1]

It could be that he has gone from good QB to bust in 2 years. Look at Wentz. He was the elite in the league and now is the worst (with Trubisky). In his case, injuries washed him.

wentz was elite? maybe if you believed some of the sports rag blurbs, but the guy has never been elite, not when you look at his numbers, the eagles offense has ranked in the top third of the league in offensive scoring only once in his 5 years under center, so it's not particularly surprising that he boasts a 35-30-1 career record... and you know who has more turnovers (picks + lost fumbles) per game than goff? yep.

With Goff, Belichek found his kryptonite. Stack the box and bring heavy pressure. Goff can't handle it. Every D Coordinator in this league can copy that.

what makes you think belichick didn't find mcvay's kryptonite? that other teams are copying? or do you think most qbs would excel in mcvay's scheme against stacked fronts, 0 and quarters cover?

Kurt Warner on the other hand (no I'm not comparing them) would stay in the pocket, take the most outrageous hits, and deliver fearless strikes that punished D's for their blitz. Goff cannot deliver like this and wilts in the face of pressure.

you mean like when warner threw two pick-sixes in two different super bowls (for the rams and for the cards) which contributed greatly to both losses? or like when warner led all 35 qualifying qbs in turnovers (picks + lost fumbles) per game for the 1999-2003 stretch, or like when only 3 qbs coughed it up more than warner for the 1999-2001 stretch?

goff hasn't played well this season, and he's played like shit in some games, but when the rams offense continues to fail time and again vs certain defensive looks and certain coaches, imo you have to look beyond the guy under center.

[moklerman]

I don't believe the idea that McVay is the one who has been figured out holds up. I have seen far too many positive plays to be had that weren't due to poor execution.

[PARAM]

I don't believe the idea that McVay is the one who has been figured out holds up. I have seen far too many positive plays to be had that weren't due to poor execution.

This is a chicken/egg thing. Or a Goff product of McVay/Goff ruining a perfect system thing. I've seen enough....more than enough....dumb assed calls by McVay the last 2 years. Explain to me why we didn't hand the ball off once on our last drive after gaining 61, 6, 6 and 4 yards running on 4 of the last 6 attempts? With 3:11 left in a tie game and 3 timeouts? And the only reason 1 of those 2 runs that didn't gain at least 4 yards only gained 1 yard was because it was a touchdown! That's called dumb assed play calling!! By any standards. What, was SF playing the run??????

[moklerman]

This is a chicken/egg thing. Or a Goff product of McVay/Goff ruining a perfect system thing. I've seen enough....more than enough....dumb assed calls by McVay the last 2 years. Explain to me why we didn't hand the ball off once on our last drive after gaining 61, 6, 6 and 4 yards running on 4 of the last 6 attempts? With 3:11 left in a tie game and 3 timeouts? And the only reason 1 of those 2 runs that didn't gain at least 4 yards only gained 1 yard was because it was a touchdown! That's called dumb assed play calling!! By any standards. What, was SF playing the run??????

The playcalling wasn't the issue. And on the drive after the TD, they ran it 3/5 plays. On the last drive, calling consecutive pass plays wasn't the issue. There were open receivers on those plays, Goff just overthrew them. That isn't a playcalling issue unless you want to fault McVay for trusting Goff.

[/zn/]

This is a chicken/egg thing. Or a Goff product of McVay/Goff ruining a perfect system thing. I've seen enough....more than enough....dumb assed calls by McVay the last 2 years. Explain to me why we didn't hand the ball off once on our last drive after gaining 61, 6, 6 and 4 yards running on 4 of the last 6 attempts? With 3:11 left in a tie game and 3 timeouts? And the only reason 1 of those 2 runs that didn't gain at least 4 yards only gained 1 yard was because it was a touchdown! That's called dumb assed play calling!! By any standards. What, was SF playing the run??????

I agree with your analysis.

Cookie cutter blame syndrome works this way. First it's the qb. Then later on, the offensive coordinator. Then later still, the head coach. (With McVay that doubles up.) So you don't get to the coach/coordinator until you've exhausted qb blaming. That's especially true if you have a long-standing agenda.

Then there's actual analysis. Actual analysis of that game does not just focus on the qb alone because that was -->CLEARLY<-- not the only problem.