[69RamFan]

"O line was crap from the first game of the season.......it was 'downgraded' from 2021.....that's why it showed in the Buffalo game"?

Isn't it possible it was crap because they got 0 snaps in preseason (as always), were playing together in a live game for the first time ever and against one of the hungriest Superbowl contenders of 2022? On the downgraded theory, we lost a 40 year old LT, who although a HOFer, played just 72% of the games the last 2 years. I think he's being confused with the Andrew Whitworth of 2017 & 2018. And when he missed the 2nd playoff game last year, the offense didn't miss a beat, except when Akers fumbled twice, Kupp fumbled once and Allen shot a ball over Stafford's head. So you're telling me, the guy who took over for Whitworth and did a fine job shouldn't have been considered to take over for him in 2022?

Who should have replaced Whitworth? There were no LT studs available in free agency. And drafting at 104 we certainly wouldn't have found a legit replacement in the draft. So they went with the guy who replaced Whit for 9 games in 2020 and 2021, going 6-3 and halfway through another win, not to mention the playoff game in Tampa.

Just how good was our O line in 2021? Well the first 8 games of the season, they allowed 8 sacks, averaged 104 rushing yards per game and we were 7-1. The last 9 games they allowed 23 sacks, averaged 94 rushing yards per game and we were 5-4. I'd think the 'decline' of our our OL happened halfway through 2021. But McVay, miraculously schemed around it. Were they "good"? At times. And at times they were very bad.

At RG, to replace Corbett, hardly a HOFer, they re-signed Shelton and drafted Bruss. Bruss was injured in preseason and Shelton had to move to center to start in week 2. Good plan but injuries have a way of killing that. I am amazed at the proclamations (from many) about how bad the original 2022 O line would have performed had they remained healthy. Based mostly off of that terrible Buffalo game. What other barometer could be used? Allen was gone to start week 2 and Anchrum, our first man up played a total of 2 snaps. So by the time the season was 1 game and 2 snaps old, we were on our 2nd man up. And then Edwards went out in game 3 and Shelton went out 18 snaps into week 4!!! How in the fuck can anybody say how things would have worked out had the original 5 remained healthy? Based on what? That's as ridiculous as the number of injuries the unit has suffered this year. Probably more so.

Nobody is saying the O line isn't THE problem. But there's some remarkable theories about WHY it's the problem. And many of them are bizarre.

You want to blame it on zero snaps during pre season???

I can tell you've never been to a RAMs camp to make a comment like that.

During McVay's era, In camp, the rams play fast,

then they scrimmage other teams during camp,

In which its some of the best training that you would get compared to any preseason game.

First off, Noteboom, is a backup, all of his games that he played when subbing for Whit,
were games against teams that didn't have a power house DE or OLB.

Agaianst TB, I don't count JPP as a powerhouse anymore, he is a shell of himself.

Noteboom started games at LG in 2020,
and got replaces cause he couldn't handle the big DT,
he would get pushed back.

He could handle speed rusher on the outside,
but not a powerhouse speed rusher with strength.

The RAMs had their chance to get a powerhouse LT in 2020 in Trent Williams,
Whit talked about it during an interview and he was willing to move to guard to get him.
Just by Whit talking about this, he must of knew that Noteboom is not a Trent Williams or a Whit. to take over.

But the RAMs lagged and 9ers got him for a 3rd and 5th rd pick.

For this season, we really don't have anyone,
AJax is still unproven until I see him go up against a powerhouse DE/OLB.

I did like what I saw against the 9ers and TB from AJax
But the middle was atrocious during those games.

For season 2023,

The RAMs need to rebuild there OL,
We need a powerhouse LT and Guards,
We can't have Shelton (more of a Center than a Guard) & Edwards (Con history)

That should be our priority for 2023
LT/OBJ 2.0, Orlando Brown Jr is a FA
G/Ereck Flowers is a FA Now
Then draft some backups OL. IMO

[Elvis]

[FredsDryer]

Use AD as TE and run behind that monster, throw him a few in the red zone or use him to protect the backside as a FB.

[CanuckRightWinger]

I haven't ever pointed out great posts from other Ram sites before, BUT....

Holy moley, over at the RamsOriginalHerd site there is a great (and extremely well-researched) missive about Rams OL dominance 1970-1989 by an obviously very well-informed & dedicated FollowerOfTheHorns....
70sramsfan.

Reading that post reminded me of all those ProBowls back in the day, when multiple Ram helmets would grace the NFC OLine ranks.

70sramsfan also has a diamond-bullet message for McSnead.

Finally, I have all the respect in the world for Dick Vermiel, but I never realized what a skilled Draftmaster DV was. Like I say, a very well-researched (& long) post that even us old ancient Rams fans can learn from.

NOTE: I particularly liked 70sramsfan's analogy about the Ferrari at the end.
Dead on, IMO.

[ramsman34]

A Jax doubtful. Ty Nsekhe at LT it seems

Ty - Shelton - Allen - brewer - Hav

Gonna be interesting.

[PARAM]

You want to blame it on zero snaps during pre season???

I can tell you've never been to a RAMs camp to make a comment like that.

During McVay's era, In camp, the rams play fast,

then they scrimmage other teams during camp,

In which its some of the best training that you would get compared to any preseason game.

NO. I'm blaming it on 0 preseason game snaps AND not playing together in a live game AND facing a very talented team with a chip on their shoulder in week 1. You want to tell me, scrimmages and fast paced practices are the same as live game play? Okay.

First off, Noteboom, is a backup, all of his games that he played when subbing for Whit, were games against teams that didn't have a power house DE or OLB.

Agaianst TB, I don't count JPP as a powerhouse anymore, he is a shell of himself.

Noteboom started games at LG in 2020,
and got replaces cause he couldn't handle the big DT,
he would get pushed back.

He could handle speed rusher on the outside,
but not a powerhouse speed rusher with strength.

Really? He played 7 games at LT in 2020 when Whitworth was out. We faced Tampa, SF, Arizona twice, N.England, the Jets and Seattle. No "powerhouse" DE or OLB? Armstead, Reddick, Dunlap, KJ Wright, Kerry Hyder, Hassan Reddick, Quinnen Williams, etc. And you're "not couting" JPP despite the fact it was 2020, he had 9.5 sacks, 2 int, 2 FR and on a Superbowl winning defense? Okay.

And btw, he started the first two games at G and went on IR....came off of IR to replace Whitworth......as opposed to being benched as you put it. No need to invent stuff.

The RAMs had their chance to get a powerhouse LT in 2020 in Trent Williams,
Whit talked about it during an interview and he was willing to move to guard to get him.
Just by Whit talking about this, he must of knew that Noteboom is not a Trent Williams or a Whit. to take over.

This interview......much like the Cowherd interview......may be taken a couple of ways. So this interview you cite was prior to SF trading for Williams? So what was the question? "What happens if the Rams trade for Trent Williams". The answer might be, "I'd move to guard" as opposed to "I'll be on the bench".

We'll see what happens next season. I'd like to see them get another OL or two. I think Allen's knee is so unpredictable, it's hard to rely on him. But I ain't holding my breath. For 4 years now the local OL aficionados have been saying "we're going OL early and often" and it finally happened this year....at least the early part.

[Elvis]

I haven't ever pointed out great posts from other Ram sites before, BUT....

Holy moley, over at the RamsOriginalHerd site there is a great (and extremely well-researched) missive about Rams OL dominance 1970-1989 by an obviously very well-informed & dedicated FollowerOfTheHorns....
70sramsfan.

Reading that post reminded me of all those ProBowls back in the day, when multiple Ram helmets would grace the NFC OLine ranks.

70sramsfan also has a diamond-bullet message for McSnead.

Finally, I have all the respect in the world for Dick Vermiel, but I never realized what a skilled Draftmaster DV was. Like I say, a very well-researched (& long) post that even us old ancient Rams fans can learn from.

NOTE: I particularly liked 70sramsfan's analogy about the Ferrari at the end.
Dead on, IMO.

I'd like to think the proof is in the pudding.

Not a single Lombardi from 70-89.

Now if you want to argue you need a dominant, HOF caliber LT because it's a passing league and the two SB wins were with Pace and Whitworth, that argument might make sense to me.

But if you want to argue Snead is somehow doing it wrong knowing the 5 year run we just had, being defending SB champs and all, that argument makes no sense to me.

In fact i think it's been thoroughly debunked by reality...

[CanuckRightWinger]

In a Ram 2022 OL thread,
where we are talking about specific OL issues/problems,
you want to deliberately & shamefully over-generalize and put in print that "you (CanuckRW) want to argue that Snead is somehow doing it all wrong...."???!!!

Okay, two can play that game...
Elvis, why do you piss on Chuck Knox & his 1973-77 historical NFC West Championship Run?
Why do you piss on John Robinson, who in spite of Georgia/Shaw interference, let alone an iconic 49er Divisional Foe, is still our HC with most Ram victories?
Why do you piss on all those 1970-89 NFC Championship Games, and our SBXIV appearance, huh?

How's that for shameful overgeneralization, huh?

I really do not like it when people put words in my mouth!
Moreover, I also really cherish those stout old Rams teams of my boyhood & young adulthood, and can clearly get in a lather when folks poo-poo those stellar Ram teams!

BTW Elvis, I don't think you were pissing on those stellar 1970-89 Ram teams....
but hopefully you get my point, which was this....

A poster can critique a specific aspect of some leader's action, but still retain overall respect for that leader's acumen, overall performance, and legacy.
There is no BS in that statement.
EG. I consider Ronald Reagan the greatest US President of my lifetime. Reagan just didn't talk anti-communist slogans, Ronald Reagan is the guy who put Communism, which I know from personal experience, was a really really Evil Empire ....
well Ronald Reagan, the B Movie "Bedtime For Bonzo" actor from Dixon, IL actually put Communism into "the dustbin of history" where it belongs!

However, I thought Reagan was gutless in the way he hid in the weeds & let Caspar Weinberger, George Schultz, Admiral Poindexter et al, all take the fall for Iran-Contra.....and I said so, at the time...
...but Reagan is still the greatest US President of my lifetime. Period. Full stop.

Similarly, I think McSnead are smart and shrewd SB winners.....but IMO they rolled the dice and gambled on our 2022 OL....but that still doesn't mean that I think "they are somehow doing it all wrong."

I hope you got my point, and I hope there are no hard feelings.

[Elvis]

Looking back at the GSOT:

Pace, 1st pick in the draft HOF.
Tom Nutten, 7th round pick
Mike Gruttadauria, UDFA
Adam Timmeran, FA 7th round pick
Fred Miller 5th round pick

Las year's Rams:
Andrew Whitworth, FA, 2nd round pick likely HOF
David Edwards, 5th round pick
Brian Allen, 4th round pick
Austin Corbett, trade 2nd round pick
Rob Havenstein, 2nd round pick

[Elvis]

I get your point but my point is simple: Those teams never won a SB.

The 1999 Rams did and the 2021 Rams did.

I think that's extremely relevant to any comparison.

You long for the days the Rams had first rate Olines with all time Rams greats like Rich Saul and Jackie Slater. Those Knox teams were just before my time but i cut my teeth on the Malavasi and John Robinson Rams.

But ultimately i long for the teams that won a Lombardi and i look at how they did it. I see that as the model, or at least one very effective model. I never think, "yeah they won but they didn't do it right" or any version of that.

Both teams absolutely did it right.

And i was referring to 70sramsfan's critique of Snead (which you seemed to like so much)...