[KarlBaker]

....The Hoteliers are a very powerful lobby in San Diego and the Mayor leans towards them.
The Convention center is a huge obstacle in the way of getting a new Stadium done....

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Thanks TrueBlue&Gold.
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In the Past, what was the City/County Offered Spanos ??
Why is the Convention Center an obstacle ??

[Elvis]

Lived in San Diego for 13 years. I currently live in south Orange county but family still lives in San Diego. I also listen to a lot of Mighty 1090 ( I spent about 4-5 hours a day commuting to Century City) so consider myself to be fairly plugged in to what is going on down there. In talking with my dad, he still feels that a vote will fail. There just isn't the appetite to spend public money down there. A good example of this is a few years back, a vote was on the ballot to budget a few million for some new helicopters to be used to fight wildfires and it was voted down. The Hoteliers are a very powerful lobby in San Diego and the Mayor leans towards them. The Convention center is a huge obstacle in the way of getting a new Stadium done. Doesn't mean it cannot be accomplished but from what I know and what I have heard, I see the Chargers up here in 2017.

Good stuff TBG.

Dick84 is also a really good source for Charger info, he lives and works there.

From my perspective, all this good faith effort by Spanos is great, but it's not all that telling. He needs to put a good face on things for 2016 regardless...

[trueblue&gold]

The convention center is an obstacle because they want a contiguous convention center and the the proposed site for the downtown stadium would be further south. There is a proposal by JMI that has a convention center space with the Stadium built on top of it but once again the big hotels do not want that. Big Hotel chains do not want guests spending money off their properties and having the convention center space broken into separate entities would be "bad for Business"
The other issue is that the land isn't owned by the city in downtown like it is at the Qualcomm site so there is that. Then we have to look at the environmental reports that have to be done at the locations and that they might prolong the process and finally, San Diego has a history of being very litigious when it comes to these. Petco had to fight a lot of frivolous lawsuits.

[Hacksaw]

Second Verse, Same As The First
By Jeffrey Siniard

Jan 16, 2016, 1:55p 233

JMI Realty's Proposed Joint Use Facility

No, I'm not King Henry the Eight. Neither are you. But if I was, I'd make sure San Diego's political establishment understands they're not going to bully the Chargers back to Mission Valley.
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Up until today, San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer hit all the right notes.

He didn't brag about the Chargers failure to win the Carson Stadium project on Tuesday. He didn't open with a bunch of tough talk about how the Chargers need to accept the Mission Valley proposal. He didn't take downtown off the table.

However, what one says isn't always as important as what they don't say. And what the Mayor hasn't said is this:

"We're willing to consider all options, including the JMI Joint Use Facility (i.e. Convadium) proposal."

And that may well be what pushes Dean Spanos to accept Stan Kroenke's proposal to become a partner or tenant in Inglewood, without ever giving San Diego a chance at the ballot box.
What Didn't The Mayor Say?

In an interview with Scott Kaplan and Billy Ray Smith on Mighty 1090, Faulconer was asked the following question by Kaplan, point blank:

Kaplan: What if the Chargers said to you "We're completely married to the JMI plan of a convention center/stadium." Would you entertain that conversation?

Faulconer: Well, you know, like I've said, we can talk about hypotheticals in different locations, but I would entertain the conversation for us to get together in earnest, to be talking in sincerity about what are the real options on how we need to do something, what's the plan that legally is going to work, what gives us our best opportunity for success, and one that I think San Diegans are going to support financially.

Sorry Mr. Mayor, but you evaded the question with the same grace that I exhibit on a dance floor with less than half a dozen shots of hard liquor.

I do understand why Faulconer is apprehensive about the idea. It's the same issue that popped up almost exactly 1 year ago. The Mayor wants to pursue a stadium and convention center as separate projects, while the Chargers (among others) believe the Convadium is the best way to proceed.
Why We Should Consider the Convadium

First of all we can start with the cost to taxpayers.

Information for the Mission Valley plan is here, and for the Downtown sites here. The cost of $549 million for the contiguous Convention Center expansion is taken from this article from the San Diego UnionTribune.

For the sake of argument we'll make the following assumptions:

The Chargers will contribute precisely the same amount of money to any plan that the City asked for their Mission Valley plan from last year.
The costs of acquiring land downtown and moving the bus yard will be included with both downtown stadium plans. I will stay with the CSAG estimate of $250 million, although an editorial Q&A in San Diego Union Tribune indicated a lower estimate of $230 million.

So, as you can see with this comparison, with the assumptions above, the Convadium plan based on the Briggs Initiative saves taxpayers $399 million over any other stadium / convention center combination. Further, the year-round potential for use of the Convadium ensures that's there's a higher taxpayer return on investment.

Now, I know I'm about to get an argument from people about why we need a contiguous Convention Center expansion. For those people, I say this: In a perfect world, I agree. But this is not a perfect world. So, if you want to convince me that the contiguous expansion is the only way to go, just answer these five questions in non-perfect world manner:

How are you going to pay for the $549 million contiguous expansion without a 2/3rds public vote?
Can the City of San Diego beat Cory Briggs in court?
How long will it take/much will it cost to re-acquire the land near the waterfront needed for the expansion?
Can you convince JMI to build their hotel on the Lexus Parking Lot without the Convadium?
Have you explored other contiguous options, such as tunneling the Convention Center Driveway and Harbor Drive and expanding away from the waterfront?

Until someone can answer these questions without running off to fantasy land, I'd argue that a combination of the Briggs Initiative, and a Convadium Initiative asking for $500 million in public money is the best way to go. For sake of comparison, taxpayers paid $303 million in 1998 for Petco Park. Adjusting for inflation since 1998, that $303 million equates to $441 million in 2015 dollars.

Further, I'd suggest the Convadium is a time-buying option for the Convention Center boosters. Build this first, then pursue some other non-waterfront contiguous expansion down the road.
In Closing

I get that the Mayor wants to protect his option for a contiguous expansion. It's what matters to the people who funded his campaign, and the people who are used to getting their way in San Diego for decades.

In this case however, and unless something changes, a contiguous expansion of the Convention Center is not possible. Continuing to fight for something impossible is the best way to guarantee nothing gets done.

Unless the plan is to chase the Raiders, who may be willing to accept a less expensive proposal, that nothing includes keeping the Chargers in San Diego.

[KarlBaker]

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Damn Hacksaw !!
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My mind hurts now.
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Well, at least I'm informed now.

[KarlBaker]

And I Appreciate YOUR Insight, Dick84 !!

[KarlBaker]

Hey Dick 84,
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So Basically - we probably won't know anything substantial - UNTIL - we see if a public vote passes in San Diego ??
And that is when ?? In November ??

[Hacksaw]

Spanos will likely try to keep the heat on the downtown momentum, if there is any, but I could see him settling for MV if the city kicks down enough. The Shield made any decision there $100M easier.

'The last offer by the CSD was Faulconer and Roberts signed the letter, which reiterates that the public contribution for a $1.1 billion stadium to replace aging Qualcomm Stadium will be $350 million and the Chargers' share would be $353 million. The NFL would be expected to contribute $200 million, with $187 million coming from personal seat licenses.'

So now the team and city would be looking at roughly $300M each or however they want to divi that up. Could go as low as $250M for either team or city. That can't hurt their chances.

Then there is this,,, 'McClelland told NBC 7San Diego that taxpayers, the Chargers and the NFL could save more than $400 million by building a downtown stadium, at an estimated cost of $680 million'.

These guys all need to get on the same page fast.

Goodell reminds San Diego that $300 million is available for stadium.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... r-stadium/

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/ ... z3zyEz4g7Q

[Hacksaw]

Speaking to deal made with the Rams in LA, one mans (John Gennaro) opinion,,,,

"Dean needed the agreement in his pocket for confidence. I think he needed to walk into that room with a backup plan, if he wasn't walking in with Fabiani. He needed to know that he could tell Faulconer and Roberts to screw off, and he wouldn't be screwing his franchise in the process.

Once he had that, it was time for the heart-to-heart.

I think we're to the point of mending (or mended) fences. Now is time to start talking plans, talking numbers, and coming up with something that the Chargers, the City, and the County can present together".


Does anybody know how many offers the city has made to Spanos in the last 10 years or so. I have heard there were several. And were any of these alleged offers ever voted on??

And I think we can all agree that it is a good thing that they silenced Fibiani. That can't hurt their chances.

[KarlBaker]

Spanos will likely try to keep the heat on the downtown momentum, if there is any, but I could see him settling for MV if the city kicks down enough.

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What are you guys referring to, when you write "MV" -- from your previous post (the computer screen shot with the four different number columns), I can't figure this out. -- Mission Valley ??
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So Spanos wants a "down-town stadium" - which is referred to the JMI project.
But the City has already said "no" to this -- correct ??