[Elvis]

And as long as we are defending people, Max has presented many statistical takes that hold up.

Absolutely. I'm a big max fan, always interested in what he has to say...

[moklerman]

mokler in the house! having a good summer?

re your response, when i read a young blogger label goff a second-tier qb and then attempt to support this claim with stats that he clearly doesn't understand (time to throw), numbers that are flat out wrong (qb rating when trailing by a score with 7 minutes remaining, rz scoring %), or is "troubled" by goff not ranking higher in a stat ("aggressiveness") that ranks rosen 1st, darnold 5th, while ranking mahomes ranked 37th, rodgers 30th, wilson 28th, brady 27th, brees 23rd, etc., etc., i have to call rube - does that make me a bad guy? did you read the "piece"?

I did read the piece. The author had mostly praise for Goff. Clearly stated that he thought he wasn't a system QB, was elite in many areas and just needed to improve in a couple of areas to reach elite status overall. That he thinks Goff needs to be "more" productive and efficient in the red zone to be elite. Which isn't unreasonable at all.

And Goff is 2nd tier. He isn't top 3 or top 5 in any significant passing stat. 8th in passer rating, 20th in completion %, TD's 7th, TD% 10th, Int % 15th...he's not one of the top tier at this point. Which means he's 2nd tier.

well considering flacco did it behind one helluva a defense that held offenses to an average of 15.6 per game during that 2-year span, while leading his offense to 10+ fewer points per game than goff, i'm gonna say no... and same answer to "is dilfer a better qb than goff (and marino, kelly, fouts, tarkenton, moon, etc.) because he won a super bowl and goff didn't?"

Well, I didn't say "better" did I? I said equitable. Flacco led his team to wins, didn't he? But wins don't matter, just offensive points? Does it make sense to expect those Ravens offenses to be putting up 30+ points when they were only allowing 10? Does it make sense for Flacco to have a ton of attempts when they were taking the air out of the ball and running it to preserve those leads?

But even if all of that is disregarded, does it make sense to credit Goff for all of that scoring when the Rams have an MVP caliber RB leading the league in TD's? I mean, Fouts, Marino, Manning, Moon didn't have that kind of weapon so is it really comparable to put Goff in that same category?

[aeneas1]

I did read the piece.

interesting.

Well, I didn't say "better" did I? I said equitable.

same answers to "equitable".

[moklerman]

interesting.

same answers to "equitable".

Goff is a lot more Jeff Garcia than he is Dan Marino. Very solid QB who can put up numbers in a system that can beat most teams with matchups and personnel. Take away the running game, receivers and defense and Goff isn't going to be shattering NFL records like Marino did.

[aeneas1]

Goff is a lot more Jeff Garcia than he is Dan Marino. Very solid QB who can put up numbers in a system that can beat most teams with matchups and personnel. Take away the running game, receivers and defense and Goff isn't going to be shattering NFL records like Marino did.

a lot more like a journeyman who had three nice seasons in his early 30s? ok.

[moklerman]

a lot more like a journeyman who had three nice seasons in his early 30s? ok.

They weren't the same style of QB at all but Garcia's 2nd, 3rd and 4th year as an NFL starter will stack up to the numbers Goff puts up in his 2nd, 3rd and 4th seasons.

Getting back to the article, if Goff isn't 2nd tier, what would you call him? Do you think he's elite already?

[aeneas1]

some 2018 feel-goodery from the rosewood desk of a1... granted, these stats aren't as compelling as "completion % above expectation" or "aggressiveness" but, hey, what are ya gonna do?

[aeneas1]

if Goff isn't 2nd tier, what would you call him?

jeff garcia, clearly.

[moklerman]

jeff garcia, clearly.

Coward.

[/zn/]

some 2018 feel-goodery from the rosewood desk of a1... granted, these stats aren't as compelling as "completion % above expectation" or "aggressiveness" but, hey, what are ya gonna do?

VirtualBox_2019-07-20_21-12-41.png

Yeah he has demonstrated that he is clutch that way. '

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