[snackdaddy]

Goff's career. 103 TD's. 71 turnovers. 88.8% rating. 8 game winning drives with 25 failed chances to pull the game out. Contract $134,000,000. $110,000,000 guaranteed. No thanks.

I'm sorry but this one has to be one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen. By that logic Aaron Rogers has failed to pull the game out 45 times. Geez, I know Goff has had some stinkers but your credibility takes a hit here.

My bad, after a quick check the article I found for QB records was 3 years old. He's failed to pull out games 63 times in his career. What a bum.

[max]

Goff started the season off like gangbusters, with a passer rating of around 108 for the first 5 weeks (4 wins and a controversial loss). Three of the defenses the Rams faced in those games currently rank in the Top 10.

So... Jared Goff CAN BE very effective.

If he can have a stretch like that over the final 5 games of the season, much of this conversation will be moot.

Goff won’t be facing tough defenses in the final 5 games outside of the Pats. We should fully expect him to do well. That doesn’t answer the salient question. What happens when he faces a tough defense in the playoffs? Heck, I can see us getting to the SB and facing the Steelers. That’s when he can answer the questions once and for all.

[/zn/]

Goff won’t be facing tough defenses in the final 5 games outside of the Pats. We should fully expect him to do well. That doesn’t answer the salient question. What happens when he faces a tough defense in the playoffs? Heck, I can see us getting to the SB and facing the Steelers. That’s when he can answer the questions once and for all.

I never think that is just Goff.

Last week Shanahan faced the #2 ranked defense (4th in points), a defense that is also the 2nd best 2nd half defense in the NFL in over a generation. His qb has an avg. qb rating of 87.1 and has more INTs than TDs. Yet SF won because they scored on a couple of drives pretty much totally engineered by the coach...the qb did not bail him out with extraordinary clutch play.

Goff is better than Mullens by a longshot.

Do you think SF loses that game if they have Goff at qb?

Do you think McVay would have a chance if his qb were Mullens?

I don't want to overstate this point because Shanahan has been losing games--he had 2 weeks to prepare for the Rams and their D is built to beat the Rams. But, it is entirely fair to say that at this point KS is a more savvy, instinctive, tuned-in playcaller than McVay. I like to think that McVay can become that.

Focussing on the qb alone does not address any of these issues.

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[snackdaddy]

Goff won’t be facing tough defenses in the final 5 games outside of the Pats. We should fully expect him to do well. That doesn’t answer the salient question. What happens when he faces a tough defense in the playoffs? Heck, I can see us getting to the SB and facing the Steelers. That’s when he can answer the questions once and for all.

To be honest, I never expected the Rams to be a legit Superbowl contender. Before the season I pegged them for a mid seed playoff contender and maybe a first round win. And its not all because of Goff. The line needs to do better opening holes for the run game.

If they can't, McVay will have to resort to less balance and become more predictable. That is not a championship team. Its a good team who should make the playoffs and maybe win a game. But not go on a 3 game run against the best of the NFC.

Those two games running the ball has been very hard. Take away Akers 65 yard run and they're averaging about two and a half yards per carry the past two games. Which coincidentally is the first two games without Whitworth. If they can't fix that, maybe they make the playoffs but they won't go on a deep run.

All things considered, I would consider a second round exit to be a successful season. I thought there was a chance we could be worse than last season.

[PARAM]

To be honest, I never expected the Rams to be a legit Superbowl contender. Before the season I pegged them for a mid seed playoff contender and maybe a first round win. And its not all because of Goff. The line needs to do better opening holes for the run game.

If they can't, McVay will have to resort to less balance and become more predictable. That is not a championship team. Its a good team who should make the playoffs and maybe win a game. But not go on a 3 game run against the best of the NFC.

Those two games running the ball has been very hard. Take away Akers 65 yard run and they're averaging about two and a half yards per carry the past two games. Which coincidentally is the first two games without Whitworth. If they can't fix that, maybe they make the playoffs but they won't go on a deep run.

All things considered, I would consider a second round exit to be a successful season. I thought there was a chance we could be worse than last season.

No reasonable fan thought the Rams were a Superbowl contender. There were tons of questions, the biggest being the OL and the new DC. Hell we were hoping to make it back to the playoffs.

I think they can find that balance. That stuff posted by Aeneas1 about the shotgun would be a good self scouting start. Second, the SF game should be helpful. Constantly trying to run wide against a fast D that pursues well? Once they tried hitting it up inside, Akers broke that 61 yard run. But he also had gains of 6, 6 and 4 after that, plus a 1 yd TD. He went for 0 once. So although 12.6 ypc on those last 6 is skewed by the 61 yarder, 3.0 ypc on the last five is skewed by the 1 yd TD run (truly a TD can rarely skew anything ). So try some inside running more often. With Henderson and Akers' burst it should produce better numbers and keep us from getting behind the sticks.

Before the season, the playoffs and a first round exit would have been improvement. But of course once you get there......that's out the window. A playoff win would definitely be considered a successful season and Max makes a good point. Once we get to the postseason, regardless of his up and downs throughout the season (which are exaggerated some IMO), Goff has a chance to show that in 4 years starting under McVay has taught him something. It would surprise a lot of doubters.

[PARAM]

IMO, '17 & '18 were too easy. Like, not real situations for an NFL QB easy. Many QB's take until year 3 of starting for the game to slow down for them. I thought that Goff, with 2+ years of starting from '16 - '18, would go through this process more quickly when the "real" games started in '19. I anticipated '19 would be a down year and a learning curve for Goff. The proverbial slap in the face games against CHI, DET, NE, etc., where the Rams offense wasn't able to do what they wanted in '18 was actually the beginning of the curve IMO.

So, I thought that offseason and for most of '19, Goff was probably look a little off. He was going to be dealing with not having it "easy" and learning all those lessons NFL QB's have to go through. But I thought he would be through them after an offseason, season and another offseason. And, it looked like he might have turned the corner earlier this year. But now he's reverted and has me wondering if the soft schedule got him back into bad habits or something?

But, it's been almost two and half years worth of games since that line of demarcation against KC. It's possible that maybe the timing is going to work just right for a playoff run this year.

Easy? 2017 and 2018 were easy? First year in a legit NFL offense and he faced four top 10 defenses and #11 Seattle, twice. In 2018, four top 10 defenses again and #13 SF twice. That's 12 games against some pretty good D's. He went 6-4 in those games. Add in #13 Tennessee in 2017 and that's 7-4.

Sure last year was a clusterfuck. One legged Gurley who wasn't much in between the 20's and we went 0-6 against top 10 defenses. This year we're 4-2 vs Top 10 D's.

But I gotta ask you, why do you insist on "manipulating things"?
........"Almost 2 and a half seasons since the KC game"........

They've played 32 regular season games since that game.
The first 16 the Rams were 9-7 while Goff was 357 of 590 for 4136 yards with 17 TDs and 18 Ints (78.6 rating).

In between there was the 2018 postseason, something you omitted in a previous comparison ('their last 32 games for the Rams: Sam Bradford & Jared Goff') "to be fair to Goff" while including the first 3 games post KC, a horrid stretch for him: 72 of 130 (55.4%) for 726 yds (5.58) 1 TD 6 Int (54.8 rating). Much, much worse than his 2018 playoff numbers: 59 of 106 (55.6%) for 712 yards (6.72) 1 TD and 2 Int (71.7 rating). That worked well for you then but now it's "almost 2 and a half years", obviously including that PS. Fun with numbers, eh?

The last 16 the Rams are 10-6, while Goff is 414 of 619 for 4664 yards, 27 TDs and 14 Ints (99.9 rating). So has he 'recovered' from that terrible stretch 'after the KC game'? The numbers suggest he may have.

[moklerman]

Easy? 2017 and 2018 were easy? First year in a legit NFL offense and he faced four top 10 defenses and #11 Seattle, twice. In 2018, four top 10 defenses again and #13 SF twice. That's 12 games against some pretty good D's. He went 6-4 in those games. Add in #13 Tennessee in 2017 and that's 7-4.

Sure last year was a clusterfuck. One legged Gurley who wasn't much in between the 20's and we went 0-6 against top 10 defenses. This year we're 4-2 vs Top 10 D's.

But I gotta ask you, why do you insist on "manipulating things"?
........"Almost 2 and a half seasons since the KC game"........

They've played 32 regular season games since that game.
The first 16 the Rams were 9-7 while Goff was 357 of 590 for 4136 yards with 17 TDs and 18 Ints (78.6 rating).

In between there was the 2018 postseason, something you omitted in a previous comparison ('their last 32 games for the Rams: Sam Bradford & Jared Goff') "to be fair to Goff" while including the first 3 games post KC, a horrid stretch for him: 72 of 130 (55.4%) for 726 yds (5.58) 1 TD 6 Int (54.8 rating). Much, much worse than his 2018 playoff numbers: 59 of 106 (55.6%) for 712 yards (6.72) 1 TD and 2 Int (71.7 rating). That worked well for you then but now it's "almost 2 and a half years", obviously including that PS. Fun with numbers, eh?

The last 16 the Rams are 10-6, while Goff is 414 of 619 for 4664 yards, 27 TDs and 14 Ints (99.9 rating). So has he 'recovered' from that terrible stretch 'after the KC game'? The numbers suggest he may have.

You really do have tunnel vision. I didn't say "easy", I said "too easy". It was a perfect storm of circumstances that allowed Goff to put up ridiculous numbers overnight.

But you're still hung up on not using his postseason numbers for comparison. Even after I've explained why I didn't(and never) use postseason numbers vs. regular season numbers when comparing QB's. In fact, I assumed that using those numbers would hurt Goff's overall line. I mean, we're talking about 4 games and a 73.6 rating.

It only reinforces my point though. If 73.6 actually boosts his rating, it just further illustrates how poorly he's played the past 2 years.

I don't even know what you think you're arguing about. What manipulation? Since KC, it's been 36 games played overall and in context, where I'm suggesting that Goff is getting closer to 3 years played in games outside of the brief period of '17 & '18, it's pretty straight forward. One has to agree that 3 years is an important time frame for QB's but if you generally agree with that premise, it doesn't seem so hard to count the time post KC as when Goff's "real" QB'ing clock started.

Granted, I'm grasping at straws here, but at least it's something to hope for with Goff.

[AvengerRam]

Goff won’t be facing tough defenses in the final 5 games outside of the Pats. We should fully expect him to do well. That doesn’t answer the salient question. What happens when he faces a tough defense in the playoffs? Heck, I can see us getting to the SB and facing the Steelers. That’s when he can answer the questions once and for all.

Isn't that the salient question for any QB, though?

Heck, even Tom Brady, in his illustrious career which has included 41 playoff games and 6 Super Bowl wins, has had 15 playoff games with a passer rating below 80.0, and his career playoff passer rating is only 89.8.

Goff will hopefully get plenty more opportunities to show he can win on the big stage against tough defenses.

[PARAM]

It only reinforces my point though. If 73.6 actually boosts his rating, it just further illustrates how poorly he's played the past 2 years.

See there you go again. How poor he played in 2019. This year (YEAR/SEASON), he's got a 92.3 rating, up from last year. And the Rams are 7-4 in 11 games (7 of which he's posted a QB rating better than 96.9!!!).

I don't even know what you think you're arguing about. What manipulation?

You know EXACTLY what I'm arguing about and EXACTLY what "manipulation" I cite. But I shouldn't waste my keystrokes. You're gonna do what you do.

Since KC, it's been 36 games played overall and in context, where I'm suggesting that Goff is getting closer to 3 years played in games outside of the brief period of '17 & '18, it's pretty straight forward. One has to agree that 3 years.....

Again, it's 2 years since KC. With the 2018 PS, it's 5 games (end of 2018) + 3 (PS) + 16 (2019) + 11 games (of 2020), or 35 games (remarkably, 32 Reg Season games...or exactly 2 years). Since when is 35 closer to 48 than 32? Like I said, you're gonna do what you do. And as I showed you in my previous post, the last 16 games, a 99.9 rating. The previous sixteen 78.6.

.......is an important time frame for QB's but if you generally agree with that premise, it doesn't seem so hard to count the time post KC as when Goff's "real" QB'ing clock started.

WTF is a "real NFL clock"? You see that on YouTube or something?

Granted, I'm grasping at straws here, but at least it's something to hope for with Goff.

Yeah, your grasping at something, but it ain't straws pal.

[/zn/]

See there you go again. How poor he played in 2019.

If I have one pet peeve in discussing the NFL online it's the people who just completely fail to account for subpar OL play in qb analysis. I think it's a blindspot of the first order when it happens. It makes no sense, and does not represent a realistic view of NFL football.

Obviously that's not you I refer to PA...I quoted you there referring to someone else, and that's what I jumped on.

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