[AvengerRam]

Cosell didn't really answer Cowherd's question about Goff, did he? Cowherd asked if the problems Goff is having are fixable and Cosell seemed to sort of just trail off on a tangent. Or did I miss his answer? He just kind of danced around the topic until it was a new topic.

Paraphrasing, he said Goff is what he is and he's very system dependent. Not that that is a bad thing as most QB's are that way. Said that if things were just as he expected, Goff was fine and could throw the ball really well. But if they weren't, he had problems. Which is pretty much what we've all talked about.

But he didn't answer whether or not it could be fixed. Unless the answer was that Goff is what he is and that's all he can be.

Well... tautology is often very tautological.

[aeneas1]

I wonder which has more value - 4th quarter game winning drives, or keeping/extending your 4th quarter lead to win? I do know that turnovers can kill both. But, having the lead is generally a more secure place to be.

qb1 starts the 4th quarter behind by two scores, qb2 starts the 4th quarter down by 1 at the opponent's 1 yardline and quickly punches the ball in - if qb2 wins and qb1 doesn't, does that mean qb2 is a better qb in terms of game winning drives? nope... personally i've never put much stock in gwd numbers at all...

anyway, yeah, having the lead headed in the 4th quarter is the way to go, in fact i don't think most fans realize just how bad the odds are of winning the game if you enter the 4th behind...

rams records when ahead, tied and behind when entering the 4th, and the league average from 2010-2020, pretty grim indeed...

[Hacksaw]

^^ Sarcasm Alert ^^

[bremillard]

Yeah if I gave back money where I work it might help others.

But neither you nor I are going to do that.

We just think quarterbacks should.

If I made 2 million a game I might be tempted.

[bremillard]

Cosell didn't really answer Cowherd's question about Goff, did he? Cowherd asked if the problems Goff is having are fixable and Cosell seemed to sort of just trail off on a tangent. Or did I miss his answer? He just kind of danced around the topic until it was a new topic.
Unless the answer was that Goff is what he is and that's all he can be.

That's how I heard it.

[PARAM]

You're a Ram fan. I've been a Ram fan since Ken Iman snapped the ball to Roman Gabriel, Eddie Meador intercepted passes and Bruce Gossett missed game tying/winning field goals. I don't want either of us to lose site of the fact that we are adamant and emotional about the same team. I fully admit to having way more at stake every NFL Sunday than should be humanly allowable for something so far out of my control. Since we are both Rams fans I celebrate the team with you and am sorry if hard feeling develop in lament.

Fair enough. Then, for you, even more than I, I hope the Rams kick ass the rest of the season.

[PARAM]

I wonder which has more value - 4th quarter game winning drives, or keeping/extending your 4th quarter lead to win? I do know that turnovers can kill both. But, having the lead is generally a more secure place to be.

Neither, they're both the same. I would think anybody who can get a lead, keep it or extend it, has the ability to come from behind. In my mind, if you keep the game from getting too big mentally, bringing a team from behind to win late isn't any different than a 2 minute drill at the end of the first half. JMHO.

[PARAM]

Cosell didn't really answer Cowherd's question about Goff, did he? Cowherd asked if the problems Goff is having are fixable and Cosell seemed to sort of just trail off on a tangent. Or did I miss his answer? He just kind of danced around the topic until it was a new topic.

Paraphrasing, he said Goff is what he is and he's very system dependent. Not that that is a bad thing as most QB's are that way. Said that if things were just as he expected, Goff was fine and could throw the ball really well. But if they weren't, he had problems. Which is pretty much what we've all talked about.

But he didn't answer whether or not it could be fixed. Unless the answer was that Goff is what he is and that's all he can be.

What I heard is.......

.....most quarterbacks are system based. (But he also said) "but he is really like that". When the system works....and McVay has a phenominal system.....he's fine. When he drops back, gets what he expects, coverage-wise....and that comes from good coaching AND play calling....then he looks really good.

When he doesn't get what he expects, when he gets pressure, then his efficiency drops. He's not going to become a different player. This is who he is. Very much a function of the scheme.


Okay, let's dissect that for a minute.

1. Most quarterbacks are system based.
2. Goff is really system based. McVay has a phenominal system.
3a. If the system works, he gets what he expects, he looks really good***
3b. And that comes from coaching and playcalling
4a. When he doesn't get what he expects, when he gets pressure, his efficiency drops.

So if that's accurate, based on 1 thru 3b...we can add 4b

4b. And that comes from coaching and playcalling

Basically what Cosell said was McVay's system isn't working when Goff doesn't look good.
If he's not getting what he expects, it's coaching AND play calling

And yet, most quarterbacks don't feel comfortable when being pressured. Some have the legs to get outside the pocket and make plays. **Aaron Rodgers?

Then they moved on to Rodgers. He looks really good. What aren't we seeing Colin? We aren't seeing him running around. He's making plays because the design of the plays.

So he's a system QB who has the legs to run around and make plays when things break down.

Bottom line is this, for me. I've been saying it's playcalling the last couple of years. And still Goff has won enough to make the postseaon. But I'm not seeing anymore of those plays from 2017-2018, where the announcer says, "what a remarkable route sequence". It's just not happening as much anymore. Why? Goff?

Run the fucking ball. Pass the ball to the RBs. Have a checkdown available. Challenge them vertically once in a while. Put some new shit in there!!!

Goff isn't Brett Favre, Patrick Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers. But then again, every QB not going by those names isn't either.

[moklerman]

Why? Goff?

Run the fucking ball. Pass the ball to the RBs. Have a checkdown available. Challenge them vertically once in a while. Put some new shit in there!!!

I think it's been pretty well established that there are positive plays to be had, Goff is just not taking advantage of them. There are checkdowns and open receivers but Goff is struggling to find them. Which is why I still hold out hope that he is working on the processing part that takes time.

IMO, '17 & '18 were too easy. Like, not real situations for an NFL QB easy. Many QB's take until year 3 of starting for the game to slow down for them. I thought that Goff, with 2+ years of starting from '16 - '18, would go through this process more quickly when the "real" games started in '19. I anticipated '19 would be a down year and a learning curve for Goff. The proverbial slap in the face games against CHI, DET, NE, etc., where the Rams offense wasn't able to do what they wanted in '18 was actually the beginning of the curve IMO.

So, I thought that offseason and for most of '19, Goff was probably look a little off. He was going to be dealing with not having it "easy" and learning all those lessons NFL QB's have to go through. But I thought he would be through them after an offseason, season and another offseason. And, it looked like he might have turned the corner earlier this year. But now he's reverted and has me wondering if the soft schedule got him back into bad habits or something?

But, it's been almost two and half years worth of games since that line of demarcation against KC. It's possible that maybe the timing is going to work just right for a playoff run this year.

[/zn/]

If I made 2 million a game I might be tempted.

Except no one who is actually in that position, ever is tempted to do that.

That's because there are like 2 dozen people in any generation who can do what they do, and they work for a league that makes billions off of selling that to audiences.

I have never heard of any player who "gives back money" on a 2nd contract. The 2nd contract is the cash-in contract, which they get after being underpaid on a rookie contract. People sometimes say that Brady with the Patz took less, but he did that on later contracts--when players get generous and give hometown discounts, it tends to be on 3rd and 4th contracts. When Brady had his chance to cash in before his later contracts, he did it too. At one point one of his early contracts (in 2010 I think) was the highest in the league and in league history.

...