[moklerman]

Did you hear Mike Florio? He said it.

Overnight rise is not the right description.

Goff was a 21 year old rookie in about the worst situation ever. And he looked bad. In his 2nd year he was in a much better situation and looked like a first round pick. Nothing unusual about that.

I’ve seen enough from Goff to expect him to continue to improve and the inconsistency to fade.

I try my best to be unbiased when it comes to players. I supported both the Bradford and Goff picks. I’ve praised and I’ve criticized them both. But what I saw from Goff in the Superdome I never saw from Bradford. That kid is a gamer. Betting against him is a mistake.

To go from a potential bust to pro-bowler in one offseason is the definition of overnight rise IMO. I realize he was in a bad situation as a rookie but that doesn't erase the night and day difference in his level of play...overnight.

I think he'll become better eventually too. I think a lot of progress was made very quickly but that Goff is in the middle of overcoming more of the learning curve. There is going to have to be more of him seeing things and less McVay relaying them for him to move to the next level. But I think they're conscious of it and focusing on it this offseason.

Only real games will ultimately lead to improvement but there really isn't any reason to think Goff can't become better at these things. For all QB's it's just a matter of doing them and acclimating.

Another year older and another year(especially year 3) in the same system should help propel him.

[aeneas1]

Goff’s productivity over the past two years was elite, or pretty darn close to it.

Still...I think there is another level he has not yet reached, but can.

All things considered, I can count the QBs I’d take over him right now on one hand, and have fingers to spare.

yeah, when you look at what goff has managed over the last two seasons it's pretty darn hard to point to someone who has played much better, and that should be pretty exciting stuff if you're a rams fan.

it's funny, as much as i grow to like these players (and in a lot of cases continue to follow them after they leave the rams), i've always been about the rams first, and if a player or unit didn't perform well (imo) i've never been shy about expressing it on a rams board, regardless of how popular the player might have been among rams fans, which is why i find this homer stuff new, interesting and even entertaining.

anyway, re goff, for some reason i've been reluctant to use the word "elite" to describe him, probably because when i think "elite" i think "the absolute best" (montana, brady, p.manning, rodgers, brees, favre, etc.), i.e. guys that are in, or will be in, "the best that ever played" converstaion.

sando's tier lists for example, i don't consider all of the tier 1 guys elite, instead i consider them to be (in most cases) the upper echelon guys, the best of the bunch guys, and if you ask me goff belongs in that group, meets that criteria... of course some may see this as nothing more than semantics, but i don't.

also, in terms of "I think there is another level he has not yet reached, but can.", i certainly do too, and it's sure going to be fun to watch!

[max]

Watching Goff at his presser yesterday, I think he looked bigger.

VinnyB told me he absolutely got bigger.

[/zn/]

also, in terms of "I think there is another level he has not yet reached, but can.", i certainly do too, and it's sure going to be fun to watch!

That's the thing...can they improve? Goff himself and the offense generally. Well they think so--that's one of the key things they're working on this off-season. And we know Goff himself has always gotten better year to year. What we don't want to see is another spate of inconsistent results---they are going to be just that much more formidable when they achieve that. So it's completely fair to say yes they were impressive but they need to sustain it. Then the interesting part of the discussion becomes what basically caused that kind of inconsistency and how do they prevent it.

No one in that discussion is unethusiastic about Goff or thinks he has reached his ceiling or dismisses the great games that came before.

[max]

That's the thing...can they improve? Goff himself and the offense generally. Well they think so--that's one of the key things they're working on this off-season. And we know Goff himself has always gotten better year to year. What we don't want to see is another spate of inconsistent results---they are going to be just that much more formidable when they achieve that. So it's completely fair to say yes they were impressive but they need to sustain it. Then the interesting part of the discussion becomes what basically caused that kind of inconsistency and how do they prevent it.

No one in that discussion is unethusiastic about Goff or thinks he has reached his ceiling or dismisses the great games that came before.

An interesting question is how likely is it that Goff will improve this year? I think it’s highly likely. He’s smart, works hard, and has gotten bigger physically. He’s also very composed and deliberate in his approach to his position, especially for a 24 year old kid. I expect him to take more control of the offense and be more of an extension of McVay on the field. As we see less and less of the McVay training wheels thing, the inconsistency will also abate. Sure, he’s not a Mahomes or Rodgers type talent, but he is special in his own way.

I will give one comparison to Bradford that I saw in person. When Bradford played in NY he was crying to the refs when the Giants pulled that phony injury thing. His body language was so whiny. I was right there close to that side of the end zone. It was embarrassing to watch. I've never seen whiny from Goff.

[snackdaddy]

I feel like Goff has a nice blend of game manager when needed and able to make plays when needed. Against the Cowboys the run game was so good he didn't need to make a lot of plays. Yet, people include that one when pointing out his playoff stats. He was more of a game manager in that one. But he didn't light it up so its assumed he couldn't. Just another game in the late season stretch where his numbers weren't as good.

There are a lot of things that go into being a good quarterback. Just flinging it downfield making a few big plays doesn't always get it done. You do what is needed to win. And Goff has done that plenty. In the final 4 games leading up to the Superbowl Goff barely average a little over 200 yards per game. Yet they won all 4 and averaged 33 points per game.

And those 4 games are a part of what people use to say Goff was inconsistent. I say he did what was needed to win. The supporters think if needed he woulda done a lot more. The detractors say he couldn't if needed. Bottom line, 24 regular season wins and 2 playoff wins. Not sure how much more he needs to prove that he's the guy.

I'm pretty sure Sean McVay is comfortable with Goff as his guy for the next decade plus.

[/zn/]

I feel like Goff has a nice blend of game manager when needed and able to make plays when needed. Against the Cowboys the run game was so good he didn't need to make a lot of plays. Yet, people include that one when pointing out his playoff stats.

I agree with the first statement here. In terms of the Dallas game, it was not one of his best games. You can game manage while the team runs the ball and still hit more than 53.6% of your throws. If anything a dominant running game should have set him up to be a bit more effective than he was that day. It wasn't a bad game, obviously, just below average for him....eg. that was his 5th lowest qb rating all year and 4th lowest completion percentage. And they won so it's all an asterisk....taken in isolation. Taken in the context of the last 8 games together, it's another below avg. game and has to count that way. Though as I keep saying, that's not rare at all for 3rd year qbs...a lot of good ones were that way in year 3 (ie. not sustaining consistent production & having a number of below avg. games). For a young qb it seems to be a kind of norm.

[rams74]

If anything a dominant running game should have set him up to be a bit more effective than he was that day.

I don't know why you would assume this. The Rams passing game is most effective when we're playing up tempo -- meaning Goff and his receivers are in better rhythm. And the Rams are not unique here. When a QB is standing around flat-footed after repeatedly handing the ball to a running back, the timing of the passing game can suffer. We've seen this time and time again, all over the league.

[moklerman]

I don't know why you would assume this. The Rams passing game is most effective when we're playing up tempo -- meaning Goff and his receivers are in better rhythm. And the Rams are not unique here. When a QB is standing around flat-footed after repeatedly handing the ball to a running back, the timing of the passing game can suffer. We've seen this time and time again, all over the league.

I think it's because Goff's numbers are heavily slanted toward play action passing. Does some of his best work when the Rams are running the ball well so it didn't add up that he'd struggle with the Rams running it the best they had all year.

[/zn/]

I don't know why you would assume this. The Rams passing game is most effective when we're playing up tempo -- meaning Goff and his receivers are in better rhythm. And the Rams are not unique here. When a QB is standing around flat-footed after repeatedly handing the ball to a running back, the timing of the passing game can suffer. We've seen this time and time again, all over the league.

I assume that because, among other things, the Rams excel at play action. Plus any good veteran qb can have a high completion percentage regardless of the tempo, especially if the defense has to think run first. QBs can complete passes at a high rate regardless of how often they run the ball.... Eg. Seattle was 1st in rushing attempts last year and 32nd in passing attempts yet Wilson's completion percentage was 65.6% (and he had only 3 games with his completion percentage in the 50s.) Other teams in the top 5 in rushing attempts include the Patz and Saints, whose qbs combined had 4 of 37 games where they had completion percentages in the 50s.

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