[PARAM]

You can argue the Rams made a mistake paying Noteboom and Allen but i think it's pretty hard to argue they don't invest and spend on Oline.

They drafted Noteboom with a 3, developed him, re signed him to a sizable 2nd contract and then made him the starting LT after Big Whit retired.

Maybe it was a bad plan (i'm sure Noteboom rupturing his Achilles wasn't part of it) but it's hard to argue the Rams didn't invest draft capital, time and money in their plan for life after AW.

This year, 3 of their top 7 cap hits are OL. But that's besides the point. The POINT is OL spending does not equate to success. Over the last 6 years 29 of the 60 top 10 teams in OL spending each season have had a winning record. 48%! The Rams are never in the top half of the NFL in that catagory and they've had 5 winning seasons in 6. 83%! So I guess they've figured a way to avoid spending huge jack on the OL overall. Or "it all starts up front" is an antiquated cliche.

As far as the draft goes, the Rams have made 67 picks (2017-2023) and 10 have been OL. SF? 7 of 58. Seattle 10 of 61. Arizona 12 of 54. Arizona has the most and the #4 record in the West over that span.

Rams 60-38 (14.9% OL in draft)
Seattle 58-40 (16.3%)
SFran 52-46 (12.0%)
Arizona 39-57-2 (22.2%)

Go figure.

Of course we didn't sign a Trent Williams and since SF has, they are 29-21 (Rams are 27-23 with a Lombardi). TW is going to cost SF 27.7 mil, 28.0, 30.4 and 34.1 over the next 4 years, probably more than the Rams starting 5 each year. Will they win a SB during that run? Possibly. Who's blind side is he protecting?

[CanuckRightWinger]

Sheesh a guy takes a coupla days off to golf, and my good mood bubble gets burst by more unpure empirical dogma.

Briefly:
The statement was made that "the McSnead regime prioritized OL."
I said they prioritized OL now in 2023 with Avila pick, but I objected based historically on low Draft treasure spent, and low Salary Cap $$ spent on OL by McSnead.

Cap $$-wise, from 2017-2022 McSnead spent in bottom quarter percentile of 32 NFL Teams (28th/17th/19th/29th/27th/ and 30th in 2022).

Draft-wise, in 6 McSnead Drafts 2017-2022, outa 53 Draftees, 8 were OL, including 2 Drafts (2017 & 2021) w/ zero Ram OL drafted. Of those 8 OL Draftees, Demby #192, Edwards #169, Anchrum #250, & Arcuri #261 didn't seem like prioritizing to me. Noteboom # 89 was highest OL pick by McSnead, Bobby Evans was second highest McSnead OL Draftee.

What was prioritized 2017-2022 Draftwise and Moneywise by McSnead were:
QBs....both Goff's big bucks 2019 extension and Stafford's enormous Draft Treasure expense (& salary) underscores how highly McSnead prioritize the QB Position.
Big bucks to Gurley, & the Day Two Picks of Akers & Hendo emphasize RB prioritization.
Kupp's huge bucks, Sammy Watkins & Bobby Trees UFA selections, 2nd Rd picks of Everett, Jefferson, & Atwell, and First Rounder Pick for Brandon Cooks and the $26Mil McSnead paid for 8 games of wideout AR, all indicate heavy McSnead prioritization to receiver playmakers......

and certainly not to OLinemen. Where, I ask you, is the OL Cap $$ and Draft treasure beef compared to that plethora shown above for what McSnead laid out for playmakers?

Ask any non-Rams fan guy who follows & knows football, none of them will say McSnead prioritize OL.......for the simple reason that they have not historically done so.
They have prioritized getting playmakers and paying them.......and yes, you can add the big bucks paid for D playmakers AD, Floyd, Wagner.......and the 2 First Rounders and all that cash for 3.5 seasons of a CB named Jalen Ramsey.

No such heavy investments were made in OL acquistions for Ram OL in Cap $$ nor Draft capital.

That McSnead prioritized OL....remains fake news.

I see where the message pivioted to say.....
not all NFL teams have paid big Cap bucks for OL, and some of them have done okay.
Fine.....the Rams themselves won SBLVI with a 27th highest paid OL.....IE. they went cheap, but got away with it. Same as NE did in SBLIII .....cheaped out on OL, but nevertheless beat us in SBLIII....
but nobody is gonna say NE beat us because their OL shone brightly, when they scored 13 measly points, punted 5 times, and got Brady sacked and ended up sporting a 71.4 Rating and a 24.4 QBR.

The NE Defense, schemed by the master BB, outwitted and outmuscled our OL in Atlanta that day.

We prioritized OL in 2023 with that 2nd Round selection of Avila, because McVay HAS TO have a decent running game in 2023, to control TOP and score points......
to shield what is gonna be a green-as-grass 2023 Ram D.

Let's all hope Avila is all he is cracked up to be......and Warren McClendon too!

Cheers from sunny Vancouver, BC

[PARAM]

Sheesh a guy takes a coupla days off to golf, and my good mood bubble gets burst by more unpure empirical dogma.

Briefly:
The statement was made that "the McSnead regime prioritized OL."
I said they prioritized OL now in 2023 with Avila pick, but I objected based historically on low Draft treasure spent, and low Salary Cap $$ spent on OL by McSnead.

Cap $$-wise, from 2017-2022 McSnead spent in bottom quarter percentile of 32 NFL Teams (28th/17th/19th/29th/27th/ and 30th in 2022).

Draft-wise, in 6 McSnead Drafts 2017-2022, outa 53 Draftees, 8 were OL, including 2 Drafts (2017 & 2021) w/ zero Ram OL drafted. Of those 8 OL Draftees, Demby #192, Edwards #169, Anchrum #250, & Arcuri #261 didn't seem like prioritizing to me. Noteboom # 89 was highest OL pick by McSnead, Bobby Evans was second highest McSnead OL Draftee.

What was prioritized 2017-2022 Draftwise and Moneywise by McSnead were:
QBs....both Goff's big bucks 2019 extension and Stafford's enormous Draft Treasure expense (& salary) underscores how highly McSnead prioritize the QB Position.
Big bucks to Gurley, & the Day Two Picks of Akers & Hendo emphasize RB prioritization.
Kupp's huge bucks, Sammy Watkins & Bobby Trees UFA selections, 2nd Rd picks of Everett, Jefferson, & Atwell, and First Rounder Pick for Brandon Cooks and the $26Mil McSnead paid for 8 games of wideout AR, all indicate heavy McSnead prioritization to receiver playmakers......

and certainly not to OLinemen. Where, I ask you, is the OL Cap $$ and Draft treasure beef compared to that plethora shown above for what McSnead laid out for playmakers?

Ask any non-Rams fan guy who follows & knows football, none of them will say McSnead prioritize OL.......for the simple reason that they have not historically done so.
They have prioritized getting playmakers and paying them.......and yes, you can add the big bucks paid for D playmakers AD, Floyd, Wagner.......and the 2 First Rounders and all that cash for 3.5 seasons of a CB named Jalen Ramsey.

No such heavy investments were made in OL acquistions for Ram OL in Cap $$ nor Draft capital.

That McSnead prioritized OL....remains fake news.

I see where the message pivioted to say.....
not all NFL teams have paid big Cap bucks for OL, and some of them have done okay.
Fine.....the Rams themselves won SBLVI with a 27th highest paid OL.....IE. they went cheap, but got away with it. Same as NE did in SBLIII .....cheaped out on OL, but nevertheless beat us in SBLIII....
but nobody is gonna say NE beat us because their OL shone brightly, when they scored 13 measly points, punted 5 times, and got Brady sacked and ended up sporting a 71.4 Rating and a 24.4 QBR.

The NE Defense, schemed by the master BB, outwitted and outmuscled our OL in Atlanta that day.

We prioritized OL in 2023 with that 2nd Round selection of Avila, because McVay HAS TO have a decent running game in 2023, to control TOP and score points......
to shield what is gonna be a green-as-grass 2023 Ram D.

Let's all hope Avila is all he is cracked up to be......and Warren McClendon too!

Cheers from sunny Vancouver, BC

So the definition of "prioritizing" is drafting and money spent?
Let's take the first one......drafting. What determines priority? The number of guys drafted? The round they were drafted?

Clearly you believe the round they were drafted matters most. No OL have been drafted in the first round under McVay but neither has any other position, because they haven't had a first round pick. So I'm going out on a limb here.....based on your comments over the years about OL drafting.....unless the Rams drafted an OL in the 2nd round, they weren't a priority. But how about when they don't have a first OR a second round pick? Ironically enough, when that has happend (twice) the Rams used their first pick on the OL. In one instance, their first two picks on OL. I don't know about you but when your "draft capital" starts in the third round and both times you choose an OL, I'd say that's prioritizing the position to the Nth degree.

How about money? What does it have to do with success? The more money spent on OL, the better the OL will be? Spending more money on OL probably means you have more veterans on the OL, typically more expensive than non-first round picks on their first contract. Hell, Creed Humphrey carried a cap hit of 1.0, 1.2 in 2021 and 2022 and now he's set to count a whopping 1.5 in 2023. How much does his salary have to do with his talent? That's your boy right? Whew. 2 more picks down and he would have been third round, aka, not good enough for Canuck.

What was that line you used by Samuel Clemens about stats (positional spending)?

The Raiders spent the most on OL in 2017 and went 6-10. They ranked #25 in rushing and #16 in passing. But they were #4 in fewest sacks allowed so there's that. In 2018 it was the Cowboys. They went 10-6 and were #22 in points and #22 in yards. They were #23 in passing and #10 in rushing. But they only managed 50 yards (on 22 att) vs the Rams in the postseason. I'd bet Jerrah was proud of that!!!

See the OL expert de jure knows everything that's right or wrong about OL. And the conclusion is unless you draft them high (2nd round or higher) and pay them well (1st quarter percentile), you are not prioritizing the OL. Yet teams that have done that have a winning record 48% of the time. I'm sure a wise retort would be "well there are other factors involved" and I'd agree. So you can spend money on the OL and fail miserably as easily as you can spend less and succeed greatly, which is what McSnead have done. It's just that the two years they failed miserably, their OL suffered multiple injuries. So you believe it's because they didn't draft them high enough or pay them well enough to prevent that!!!

What you are selling is "fake news". It's totally from your perspective (a biased one at best, agenda driven at worse) and not based in fact in any way. You should get a tatoo that says, "Dishing fake news since 2019"!!! You use stats for "support" and pass them off as enlightenment. Truth is, it really doesn't matter how much you spend because it guarantees nothing. But now, now that you've got your 2nd round lineman, all is well in the Canadien Province of Ramsnation! They really care about OL!! Finally!!

You're favorite Rams OL of the McVay era had a collective cap hit of 26 mil (#18 in the NFL). You remember. The OL you cried about when they allowed a couple of guys to walk. The Rams spent more in 2019 but you blamed the 9-7 "failure" on the untalented OL. And the Rams spent less than the 2018 OL (by far) in 2021 and won the Super Bowl.

You just can't make this shit up!!! Well, it takes a certain rare talent to do so, apparently. An expert in the field with experience in budgets!!

[CanuckRightWinger]

You keep saying "the Rams didn't have a First Round Pick" to spend on OL.
Wrong. Miami did not have a 2023 First Round Pick, as the NFL took it away from them for tampering/tubing/etc.
McSnead's 2017 First Rounder was invested in his 2017 QB Jared Goff, albeit done by Snisher.
McSnead's 2018 First Round Pick was priority spent on speedster WR Brandin Cooks from NE.
McSnead's 2019 & 2020 First Round Picks they priority spent on one lockdown CB Jalen Ramsey
McSnead's 2021 & 2022 First Round Picks they spent on QB Matthew Stafford....another priority deal because they thought Goff could never win us a SuperBowl.
Now I did not research the above and I may be out by a year......but the idea is that McSnead never had to forfeit their First Round Picks back to the NFL, or have them stolen by Ninjas or Russian hackers.......no, no....McSnead prioritized their First Round Picks on important pieces to improve the Team......Offensive Playmakers like Goff, Cooks and Stafford, and a D playmaker Ramsey.
What is so hard to understand that First Round Picks are the most valuable Picks in a NFL Teams arsenal and that McSnead used those Top Picks on playmakers.........and not OL.

Still and all, you maintain that McSnead prioritized OL, which is your opinion.
My opinion is that McSnead prioritized their big Salary Cap $$ and their most valuable Draft Capital on Offensive and Defensive playmakers......and NOT OL.

So we disagree.....yet again. No biggee.....and I see the core difference in our Ram fandom these days like this:
I think that you hold McSnead in higher esteem than me.
Things like 2019 you see as "a winning season" whereas I see as "missing the Playoffs, and hence Rams being irrelevant in 2019".

Mike Martz had his flaws, but his winning percentage was pretty damn good, and he missed the Playoffs during his 5 full seasons 2000 thru 2004 (tough to count 2005 where Shaw/Zymunt ousted him IMO) only once in 2002. So 4 outa 5 seasons, Martz got Los Ramos into the Playoffs.

I think Sean McVay is clearly very special given what he did with a 4-12 Fisher 2016 squad he inherited and getting us to a 2017 Playoff Bye Week, plus got us to 2 SuperBowls.
But if you look at Snead separately, Les Snead was O-fer 5 seasons on Playoffs 2012-2016 with Snisher, and while Snead and McVay seem to compliment each other, if we miss the 2023 Playoffs (which could happen), that will make it 3 misses in 7 McSnead seasons.

So I guess what I am saying is that I do not hold the same high level of reverence for McSnead as some other guys here at RFU. They've done some great things for my Rams....
but so did George Allen, Knox I (who BTW, never missed the Playoffs 1973-77), Malavasi (SBXIV), Robinson, Vermiel and Martz (SBXXXVI).

Like I said, McSnead have done some great things for our Team, and for which I am thankful for.....but they get paid alot of money to put a solid and entertaining product on the field.....so it should not be a sin or a vice for fans to notice errors McSnead make, and point them out IMO. That's all.

Cheers from Vancouver, BC

[PARAM]

You keep saying "the Rams didn't have a First Round Pick" to spend on OL.
Wrong. Miami did not have a 2023 First Round Pick, as the NFL took it away from them for tampering/tubing/etc.
McSnead's 2017 First Rounder was invested in his 2017 QB Jared Goff, albeit done by Snisher.
McSnead's 2018 First Round Pick was priority spent on speedster WR Brandin Cooks from NE.
McSnead's 2019 & 2020 First Round Picks they priority spent on one lockdown CB Jalen Ramsey
McSnead's 2021 & 2022 First Round Picks they spent on QB Matthew Stafford....another priority deal because they thought Goff could never win us a SuperBowl.

Doesn't your back ever get sore from moving those heavy goalposts? Or your legs. You keep jumping back and forth between draft picks and money. One theory gets disproven, you jump to the other, then back again. A discussion with you is like playing Whack-A-Mole.

I see the core difference in our Ram fandom these days like this:
I think that you hold McSnead in higher esteem than me.
Things like 2019 you see as "a winning season" whereas I see as "missing the Playoffs, and hence Rams being irrelevant in 2019".

I see the core difference in our fandom the same way I've always seen it. I enjoy being a Ram fan, always have.....while you act like you're having root canal and a prostate exam simultaneously.

Like I said, McSnead have done some great things for our Team, and for which I am thankful for.....but they get paid alot of money to put a solid and entertaining product on the field.....so it should not be a sin or a vice for fans to notice errors McSnead make, and point them out IMO. That's all.

Yebbit, yebbit, yebbit.

"Great things"
"Playoff wins"
"Superbowl Championship"
"Thankful"
"Appreciative"
"Honestly"
"But, but, but"

It is not a sin to notice errors and point them out. It's not even a sin to invent errors and portray them as fact, though it is poor form. Nor is it a sin to misunderstand the concept of sports competition and fandom. Sports is entertainment, you're right about that much. But fandom is not a money-back guaranteed transaction. The competition is the entertainment. The result is not. Because either way, once it's complete, it starts all over again. I see feelings more related to a hemorrhoid operation than tasting a fine wine in your fandom future. Whatever floats your boat.

[CanuckRightWinger]

Ya had to get condescending eh?
Too bad because I thought we were actually making progress when you admitted that McSnead's $26Mil purchase of Allen Robinson was a fuckup. Just a flash in the pan, I guess.

Back to your goalpost moving slur....
NFL Teams have two things to spend....Salary Cap $$ and Draft Picks.
Those are the two currencies Teams use to stock their rosters.
Who is jumping "back and forth"? I outlined both. In the same post. What, too tough to follow?

You want to talk about misinformation? Okay.
Your 2023 fine wine might not be such a sought after vintage year.....seems all those post-draft Ram UFAs you lectured us about arriving to augment our roster, are another one of your errant subjective projections.

Objectively, some of us noticed early on (and posted about) how 87% of Los Ramos Salary Cap was tied up in only the Top 11 Ram players, and opined how there was no middle class on our roster....just 11 rich guys and a bunch of $750K to $1.3 Mil peons.....and how that could not stand going forward (except for Fuller who is $2Mil).

Some guys also noticed that while other teams had 60 to 80 guys signed for their 2023 rosters, that Los Ramos only had 44.....and moreover, precious little Cap Space. This you dismissed as more pessimistic hand-wringing. You dubbed it, and other troubling roster observations "the horror" right?

To me, some guys notice things, and other guys live in that "don't worry, be happy world of the braintrust knows more than us", so it is futile to observe and speculate.

And it's not a bad thing to have varying viewpoints in a Talk Forum......but IMO it is a bad thing to one group to project mental disorders onto the other.
Crude projections and rude dismissals.....whatever floats your boat, right?

The Rams knew they had to rip their Dead Money band-aid off at some point, and decided not to kick any more money down the road into 2024. The Demoff letter to the Corinthians laid that out full well. You posted guys like me were paying interest (IE. worry) on an invoice that hadn't been issued yet.

Well, UFA season has come and gone, and the penniless Rams are going to be using their favorable Waiver Wire position (6th IIRC) in the coming months to grab guys like Vincent Gray....IE. other teams' castoffs to augment that PeachFuzz D they've assembled.

You lash out at guys with differing opinions....alot.
It's annoying.

I enjoyed the Draft process with ramsrams up here, like every year. Like all Rams fans, we hope all of our Picks turn into AllPros down the road, and that some of our UDFAs turn into gems....

but in the here and now, this 2023 Rams team has some problems still.....even after addressing that top heavy Salary demographic they had, which BTW they did by gutting their 2022 D. How did you address that again? Oh yeah, don't worry about cutting future HOFer Bobby Wagner because BW wasn't as good a run-stuffer as Troy Reeder was the year before!!! Wow, there's some brilliant football knowledge displayed right there sportsfans!!!

Keep trying to drown out opposing opinions by projecting guys enjoy dental surgery all you want....
just keep rolling it on out,
in full display. It speaks volumes.

[Elvis]

Doesn't your back ever get sore from moving those heavy goalposts? Or your legs. You keep jumping back and forth between draft picks and money. One theory gets disproven, you jump to the other, then back again. A discussion with you is like playing Whack-A-Mole.

I see the core difference in our fandom the same way I've always seen it. I enjoy being a Ram fan, always have.....while you act like you're having root canal and a prostate exam simultaneously.

How many times do i have to tell you not to make this personal?

[ramman2999]

Look I can say Stafford had some positive things to say about the defense. They are flying to the ball. And they all look young. It’s not gonna be great. And I have a lot of Venom especially losing guys like Ramsey and Wagner. Those are our super bowl guys Ramsey. But I’ve come along to seeing how these young guys do.

Either we are going to be saying look at this team gearing up for the playoffs at 10-4 in a bounce back season. Or we’ll be saying the Tank is on for Caleb Williams. We shall see.

[AltiTude Ram]

The Rams came in at 19 for early draft grades.

[Hacksaw]

A lot of words on this page but just a few posts.