[ramsman34]

To clarify, I should have said--against anyone. Tenn. has a tough run defense and a weaker pass defense, so it's no stretch to imagine they will pass on them.

You and I disagree on the extent to which Goff is "there" or "ready" yet, ie. how developed he is.

I stand by my view of that, but if you turned out to be right about that, I wouldn't be disappointed none, believe me.


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I don't know it he is ready, none of us do. I just believe he is ready - more ready than he has been to date. Call it maturation, his self confidence, better understanding of his teammates, and the coach better understanding how to use players to the best of their current abilities without exposing what HE believes are their current individual and collective weaknesses.

[max]

Well people really have no idea to what extent they stole signals and how many games they used them in. The assumption that they did it every game and that it impacted every game strikes me as extravagant. (And btw stealing signals doesn't violate NFL rules...just filming teams using them is.)

I didn't talk about whether Brady was clutch though. I didn't say anything in that post that addressed that issue. I just compared their general numbers. But if Brady is clutch now, he was then too. The Patz had comeback situations in 5 games in 2001, and won 5 of them.

a) the Pats cheated and it impacted games. To what extent is debatable, suffice to say it was significant enough to aid them to win a SB.
b) because they cheated we don’t know how much that impacted the comebacks.
c) when you cheat you leave yourself open to question on any success. And you don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt.
d) I find cheating abhorrent in any sport or contest.

[snackdaddy]

a) the Pats cheated and it impacted games. To what extent is debatable, suffice to say it was significant enough to aid them to win a SB.
b) because they cheated we don’t know how much that impacted the comebacks.
c) when you cheat you leave yourself open to question on any success. And you don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt.
d) I find cheating abhorrent in any sport or contest.

I'm still pissed about taping the walk through in SB36. And the NFL destroyed the evidence because they say there wasn't anything there. Why would they do that if there was nothing there? That stinks to high heaven. In my eyes any achievements they've earned should come with an asterisk because we don't if they cheated for it or not.

[PARAM]

Blah, blah blah....
Of course you dont, you'd rather stick with mindless stats like 31+ yard passes and 4th Q comebacks.
Fact is, they are ahead in the 4th Q and dont need to come back.
Dallas and Jacksonville prove he can bring the team back on the road, Seattle, New Orleans prove he can win the big game.

Keep up the flat earth stuff though, it really makes me laugh

Yeah Goff showed me nothing in that Philly game except he fumbled the game away on a sack. 16 of 26 for 199 yards, 2 TDs, 0 picks and a 110.9 rating. Nothing. The Rams trailed 21-7 in the 2nd quarter, 24-14 at the half and 31-28 in the 4th quarter. Goff showed me nothing. All I remember is leading 35-34 with under 9 minutes to play and that fumble. That proves enough. Not ready for prime time. Forget the Seattle game. They were injured and it was all Gurley. Maybe he'll get another chance, who knows?

[dieterbrock]

Yeah Goff showed me nothing in that Philly game except he fumbled the game away on a sack. 16 of 26 for 199 yards, 2 TDs, 0 picks and a 110.9 rating. Nothing. The Rams trailed 21-7 in the 2nd quarter, 24-14 at the half and 31-28 in the 4th quarter. Goff showed me nothing. All I remember is leading 35-34 with under 9 minutes to play and that fumble. That proves enough. Not ready for prime time. Forget the Seattle game. They were injured and it was all Gurley. Maybe he'll get another chance, who knows?

Yup the defense couldn’t stop Nick Foles up 35-31 because Goff isn’t ready.
We can hope!

[aeneas1]

when was dan fouts finally "ready"? hell, was he ever "ready" in his career? didn't post a winning record until his 6th season in the league, didn't get to the postseason until his 7th, never got the bolts to the super bowl... bradshaw didn't get to the postseason until his 3rd year, the super bowl his 5th year, was he ever "ready" before those seasons? tarkenton posted 1 winning record in 5 years in his first stint with the vikings, never made the postseason, then he went to the giants for another 5 years where he posted just 1 more winning record and no postseasons, was he ever "ready" in that 10-year stretch?

hostetler had just 2 nfl starts under his belt headed into his 5th nfl season, and became the starter in game 15 when simms went down - hostetler proceeded to win the final 2 games and qb the giants to a super bowl win. is he an example of a qb who was "ready"? did he show he was "ready" in his 2 starts over the previous 4 years?

[PARAM]

when was dan fouts finally "ready"? hell, was he ever "ready" in his career? didn't post a winning record until his 6th season in the league, didn't get to the postseason until his 7th, never got the bolts to the super bowl... bradshaw didn't get to the postseason until his 3rd year, the super bowl his 5th year, was he ever "ready" before those seasons? tarkenton posted 1 winning record in 5 years in his first stint with the vikings, never made the postseason, then he went to the giants for another 5 years where he posted just 1 more winning record and no postseasons, was he ever "ready" in that 10-year stretch?

hostetler had just 2 nfl starts under his belt headed into his 5th nfl season, and became the starter in game 15 when simms went down - hostetler proceeded to win the final 2 games and qb the giants to a super bowl win. is he an example of a qb who was "ready"? did he show he was "ready" in his 2 starts over the previous 4 years?

Sure Hostetler was ready because he was brought along slow. Played in one game in 86, three in 88, 4 in 89 and 6 in 1990. His OL was solid.....only 2 injuries.....LT and RG but not at the same time. And that running game was real good with big Ottis Anderson, Rodney Hampton and Maurice Carthon......3.8 ypc.. Not to mention, his splits in the red zone, 31+ yard pass attempts and his off season training regimen. When Simms went down, many predicted the Giants wouldn't miss a beat. Some said they could *see* it in Hostetler.

[/zn/]

I don't know it he is ready, none of us do. I just believe he is ready - more ready than he has been to date. Call it maturation, his self confidence, better understanding of his teammates, and the coach better understanding how to use players to the best of their current abilities without exposing what HE believes are their current individual and collective weaknesses.

To me he just hasn't had enough experience yet playing against defenses designed to take away what he does best.

That's just a time and experience thing. He needs to go through it all, then sit back in the off-season and assess things and fix a thing or two. Come back stronger. Like all good vet qbs have in the past. It's not unique or mysterious.

Right now what we have is a very talented franchise qb who could not perform like a top vet for the whole game against Phil, and was simply not tested by a broken (though still dangerous) Seattle team though he did well in that game and was more than just a "game manager" against them.

So we have this, which is funny--Seattle beats Phil in Seattle, Phil beats LA in LA, and then LA beats Seattle in Seattle. In the middle of that messy scenario, Goff looked good for much of it but sometimes was not hitting on all 8 cylandars the way a veteran would.

Each game adds more and will contribute to re-assessment, fixing, getting even better and so on. Again--development, experience, becoming a veteran, it's not unique to Goff in all NFL history.

That's what I see. A very talented franchise qb with a lot of "you have them or you don't" skills, both physical and mental, but who is also still young and not yet a fully developed veteran. He just needs experience.

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[PARAM]

......against defenses designed to take away what he does best.......

.......sit back in the off-season and assess things and fix a thing or two.....

.......not hitting on all 8 cylandars the way a veteran would......

.....re-assessment, fixing, getting even better.......

.......a lot of "you have them or you don't" skills.......

Eloquent, as always. Spoken like an experienced football coach with a journalism degree from Northwestern (and nary a catch phrase missing). So......he's got all the tools, he's gaining the valuable experience, it's just a matter of time. It could be this coming Sunday, in this year's post season, or sometime next year when he plays 'all 60 minutes like a veteran'. We just don't know. Well, I don't know about everybody else, but now I'm really excited! Dilly, dilly! Here's your division title.....Merry Christmas!!! And with a division almost in hand, an inexperienced QB, an inexperienced head coach, it really feels like Christmas!!

[/zn/]

when was dan fouts finally "ready"

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In discussing this, I like to use words like "veteran" or "developed." In terms of "ready" for big games, presumably meaning ones where they have to rely on passing against a strong opponent to win, he has been up and down when it comes to that, as more or less you would expect from a young qb.

As we all know full well, QBs grow. There's no point in playing uber-homer games and pretending that's not true. It's just honest analysis to point it out when it is happening.

As for Fouts, he didn't have a qb rating in the 70s or a completion percentage above 55% until his 4th year. In his first 3 years, with him at qb, the Chargers went 5-20-1. They didn't have a team around him and he was suffering growing pains. Far more, in fact, than Goff is (because if nothing else JG DOES have a team around him.)

You can tell when a young qb is playing more like a vet just by watching. There's nothing strange, unusual, mysterious, or elusive about it. You can see it.

And Goff is having a good year for such an inexperienced qb, but there's still inconsistent moments. I just don't see the point in getting oversensitive when people quite rightly point that out. And at the same time, I have absolutely no doubt he will get there. You can just tell he has what it takes to get there. To me anyone who thinks otherwise just isn't watching the guy.

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