[PAC12]

No one! The formerly bottom feeder Rams were just in the super bowl! The former jokes of the NFL are now one of the most elite teams in the NFL! Maybe we should have the always injured Carson Wentz!

[PARAM]

In the final 8 games he underperformed against Detroit, Chicago, Phil, Dallas, and the Patz.

It wasn't all him by any means but he was part of it.

I don't see the point in acting like that didn't happen. At the same time I keep reiterating that many good qbs have faltered that way in their 3rd year. I assume he will not only improve and become more consistent, but also the very fact that he played below average in those games will motivate him even more to improve.

Dallas? Completed 53+% for 6.64 yards per attempt, with no INTs but also no TD, and a qb rating of 74.4---all below his gold standard numbers for the year. Same with the other 4 games I mentioned.

Blazing numbers are not everything if you can't sustain it..

I disagree with your list of "bad games". You seem to be basing it on the final stats. I'm not "acting like it didn't happen"! As I said earlier in the thread the Philly game was not as bad as many let on. He drove the Rams down twice with very little time left and though they didn't get it in the end zone at the end, they were on the Dallas 18. Sure he had a pick and lost a fumble so there's that.

The Dallas game? It was obvious the Rams game plan was run the ball. And he started 3 of 10 for 42 yards and finished 12/18.....5 of 7 in the second half. He came through as the game progressed. See that's what really good QBs do....get better as the game goes on. The numbers don't always tell the story.

What I think has happened with those "blazing numbers" from early in the season is they were over and above what is normal and fans expected that for 16 games. Every NFL QB has lows, whether they're in their 3rd year or 13th.

[max]

you really should consider charging admission to these clown shows.

Those 2 quotes by zn were completely rational.

Homers do indeed cherry pick.

It can be reasonably argued that Goff did not play well in those game stated.

Personally attacking a poster over rational statements is a common and cheap tactic and should be admonished by the admins.

[snackdaddy]

Homers do indeed cherry pick.

Cherry picking goes both ways. Most people who are criticizing Goff point to the Bears and Patriots games as proof of a blue print that Goff cannot adapt. They also conveniently forget how well he played and ran the offense in an extremely tough environment in the NFCCG.

The detractors say the Superbowl is proof he can't play in big games. The supporters say the NFCCG is proof he can. And the debate will rage on till he finally wins a Superbowl. Of course, if he doesn't light it up we'll hear it was the coach and team not him. Which I don't care as long as he wins.

[max]

Cherry picking goes both ways. Most people who are criticizing Goff point to the Bears and Patriots games as proof of a blue print that Goff cannot adapt. They also conveniently forget how well he played and ran the offense in an extremely tough environment in the NFCCG.

The detractors say the Superbowl is proof he can't play in big games. The supporters say the NFCCG is proof he can. And the debate will rage on till he finally wins a Superbowl. Of course, if he doesn't light it up we'll hear it was the coach and team not him. Which I don't care as long as he wins.

Of course. It does go both ways, as evidenced by the Eagles critical review of Goff.

Are we clowns because we believe that?

[/zn/]

I disagree with your list of "bad games". You seem to be basing it on the final stats. I'm not "acting like it didn't happen"! As I said earlier in the thread the Philly game was not as bad as many let on. He drove the Rams down twice with very little time left and though they didn't get it in the end zone at the end, they were on the Dallas 18. Sure he had a pick and lost a fumble so there's that.

The Dallas game? It was obvious the Rams game plan was run the ball. And he started 3 of 10 for 42 yards and finished 12/18.....5 of 7 in the second half. He came through as the game progressed. See that's what really good QBs do....get better as the game goes on. The numbers don't always tell the story.

What I think has happened with those "blazing numbers" from early in the season is they were over and above what is normal and fans expected that for 16 games. Every NFL QB has lows, whether they're in their 3rd year or 13th.

I dont' have a list of "bad" games. My list is of what I called Goff's below average games. The only really "bad" one in the lot is Chicago.

Dallas game. Whether or not the Rams ran the ball, they did not I assume intend for a 54% or so completion percentage. That's especially since running the ball successfully ought to have made passing easier. Since there were a number of games in the 2nd half of the season where Goff was "off" (by his own standards), and that was one of them, it becomes part of a conversation where it is asked, how can he improve. My answer is that he needs to be more consistent.

That game was a below average day for Goff---again, in spite of a very good running game. And I would not count that as a "clutch" game (he had a lot of those in 2018, proud to say...this just wasn't one of them). They led 23 to 7 early in the third and then were up 30 to 15 halfway through the third. Dallas made it 22 to 30 with 2 minutes to go. On top of it, in the Rams last 2 scoring drives combined, they had 21 plays and 3 of them were passes.

I agree that Goff was good in the 1st quarter of the Phil game, and in fact they had implemented a nice short ball control passing game as a response to things that happened in the Chicago game, but he ended up being below average (for him) in the game as a whole anyway. The numbers reflect that--he had an INT, no TD, and a qb rating of 75.9, which is the 4th worst rating for him in the regular season last year. In terms of the "inconsistent" theme, in contrast to that he had 10 games with a qb rating in the 100s, and in those games combined he threw 28 TDs and 3 Ints.

If a guy is inconsistent during a certain period then he is inconsistent, and to me that can't be shrugged off by blaming fan expectations. I just think that a realistic analysis factors that in. He was very good in the first half of the season and fan expectations aside, NOT as consistently. good in the final 8 games. Objectively. Both his play at the time and the numbers showed that.

So as I keep saying his next step as he improves--and I don't doubt it will happen--is to become more solidly consistent overall. Not that every game will have "blazing" numbers, but that he can avoid having a series of games (5 of 8) where he falls to below average play.

And again, the "off" games were not all on him, and they even won 2 of them (Detroit, Dallas). But he was a part of it. So, yeah, inconsistent. And yet at the same time, I stress that that's not rare for good qbs in their 3rd year (eg. I have done the numbers for Brady and Roethlisberger, both of whom had worse 3rd years). (Plus a case could be made that the worries about the fire weighed on the team a little.) So this is not a fatal flaw. It looks more like a phase on the way to being more consistent.

[snackdaddy]

Of course. It does go both ways, as evidenced by the Eagles critical review of Goff.

Are we clowns because we believe that?

I'm not going to put a lot of credence into another team's blog. They have a vested interest in Goff being worse than Wentz. Just like we didn't want to see Wentz light it up while Goff didn't. How many of us were saying "We picked the wrong guy" when Wentz was playing like an MVP? Quite a few I imagine. As fans we want our guy to be the right pick. Which will make us biased in our assessments. I see the same with that article.

[/zn/]

Cherry picking goes both ways. Most people who are criticizing Goff point to the Bears and Patriots games as proof of a blue print that Goff cannot adapt. They also conveniently forget how well he played and ran the offense in an extremely tough environment in the NFCCG.

The detractors say the Superbowl is proof he can't play in big games. The supporters say the NFCCG is proof he can. And the debate will rage on till he finally wins a Superbowl. Of course, if he doesn't light it up we'll hear it was the coach and team not him. Which I don't care as long as he wins.

Just clearing something up. I actually mostly agree with you that heavily negative views of Goff are not supported by all the info.

But earlier in the thread, someone directly personally accused me of cherry picking, so I want to clear that up. You didn't seem to accuse me of that so I am just responding to you by taking your post as a jumping off point to get to another issue.

It is a mistake to call my analyis of the inconsistent games out of the last 8 games "cherry picking." Not only is it NOT cherry picking, to claim it is indicates that whoever is saying that does not understand what the term "cherry picking" actually means.

Cherry picking means you deliberately exclude data. I agree that people who point to the superbowl and leave out the good stuff ARE cherry picking.

But saying I did it? Whoever said that MIGHT have a case if I argued Goff was bad overall in 2018 (which IMO no sane person would ever say), and therefore left out all the good games.

But I said he was inconsistent, which means BOTH that he was good in many games but ALSO below average in some (including the superbowl) So both types of games are on the table. That is by definition not cherry picking.

In contrast it IS cherry picking to say we should count only the great games and leave out accounting for the below average games. Or acting like they don't exist or shouldn't count for some reason.

Here is an online definition of "cherry picking":

Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position.

Saying he got so he was inconsistent in the last 8 games means that he had BOTH good games and below average games (in a fairly high proportion--5 of the 8). Saying that by definition CANNOT BE "cherry picking." To say someone is inconsistent you have to account for BOTH the better games and the below average games. It excludes nothing.


....

[AvengerRam]

Goff definitely had a rough 3 week stretch from Weeks 13-15.

When did he have his best game, though? Some might argue it was against Minnesota, when he was damn near perfect. Some would point to the shootout against KC. Both would be good choices.

If you define "best" as "most impressive," though, I'd have to go with his performance in the NFC Championship game.

After two series, he was 2-4 for 7 yards and an interception. The offense didn't produce a first down, and the entire offense seemed pretty rattled by the extreme crowd noise and a hyped-up Saints defense.

From the third series to the end of the game, Goff went 23-36 for 290 yards and a TD (no more INTs) for a passer rating of 98.2. He helped the Rams erase a 13-0 deficit, and made some great throws in the fourth quarter when the Rams were down 20-17 and 23-20. Throughout that portion of the game, he outplayed Drew Brees.

That impressed me.

[max]

Goff definitely had a rough 3 week stretch from Weeks 13-15.

When did he have his best game, though? Some might argue it was against Minnesota, when he was damn near perfect. Some would point to the shootout against KC. Both would be good choices.

If you define "best" as "most impressive," though, I'd have to go with his performance in the NFC Championship game.

After two series, he was 2-4 for 7 yards and an interception. The offense didn't produce a first down, and the entire offense seemed pretty rattled by the extreme crowd noise and a hyped-up Saints defense.

From the third series to the end of the game, Goff went 23-36 for 290 yards and a TD (no more INTs) for a passer rating of 98.2. He helped the Rams erase a 13-0 deficit, and made some great throws in the fourth quarter when the Rams were down 20-17 and 23-20. Throughout that portion of the game, he outplayed Drew Brees.

That impressed me.

Wow. You’re on a roll. Another magnificent post.

Of course, I totally agree with all of it.