[dieterbrock]

Hmmm, Carrol's USC program sanctioned and victories voided, Belichick a multiple caught cheating offender...yeah, I'm seeing a pattern emerge.

Oh I see where you're going. Tin hat time....
Belechick is the best in the business currently and Carroll is right there with him.
It also hasn't hurt BB that the Patriots play in a division that has been patently awful for the last decade too, and that he pretty much starts off each year with 4-5 win in his pocket....

[snackdaddy]

How many people are there involved with the Patriots decision makers on personnel? Is Belichek the GM too? Does he have total control with that? I have a feeling its the total system they run. And their talent evaluation. You could probably plug in an average quarterback and still win 10 games with this team.

Is part of that because they know what their facing due to illegal tactics? I don't know. But I do know they have a Hall of Fame quarterback who runs an offense that can score, get early leads and force the opposition to play catch up. Which usually makes them one dimensional. Which usually makes them easier to defend.

[moklerman]

Oh I see where you're going. Tin hat time....
Belechick is the best in the business currently and Carroll is right there with him.
It also hasn't hurt BB that the Patriots play in a division that has been patently awful for the last decade too, and that he pretty much starts off each year with 4-5 win in his pocket....

I don't have to go anywhere with it. However good or bad they might be at coaching, you can add cheating to the description. No conspiracy about it.

[dieterbrock]

I don't have to go anywhere with it. However good or bad they might be at coaching, you can add cheating to the description. No conspiracy about it.

I think the cheating has been inconsequential, and other teams were doing same stuff. But they became the biggest target because they were the best team
The deflated ball thing is a total joke.
I hate them as much as you do, but give BB his due

[moklerman]

I think the cheating has been inconsequential, and other teams were doing same stuff. But they became the biggest target because they were the best team
The deflated ball thing is a total joke.
I hate them as much as you do, but give BB his due

I have on many occasions but that due doesn't include praise or acceptance of his cheating. I think they still do. They've just gotten a lot better at it.

Sorry, inconsequential or more, that cheating was likely the difference between the Rams losing or winning SBXXXVI. I'm just never going to truly respect a guy that tries to cheat to win. Much less gets caught at it.

The white-washing of all that cheating to prop up the Patriots and the league not wanting to expose them pretty much destroyed my faith in the NFL. It's a lot more than inconsequential to me.

Now that I think about it, what do you mean? Cheating is fine, just not too much cheating?

[dieterbrock]

I have on many occasions but that due doesn't include praise or acceptance of his cheating. I think they still do. They've just gotten a lot better at it.

Sorry, inconsequential or more, that cheating was likely the difference between the Rams losing or winning SBXXXVI. I'm just never going to truly respect a guy that tries to cheat to win. Much less gets caught at it.

The white-washing of all that cheating to prop up the Patriots and the league not wanting to expose them pretty much destroyed my faith in the NFL. It's a lot more than inconsequential to me.

Now that I think about it, what do you mean? Cheating is fine, just not too much cheating?

No the subject is why is Belechick so good. And I think the benefit he's received from deflategate and such is inconsequential. I do not believe the Patriots win as much as they do because they cheat.
They're just better because BB is the best HC in the land.

[scramsfan]

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/11/28/nfl- ... ts-defense

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere but there is some good insight into Belichick and Matt Patricia. It's a long article so I did not include the text. However, it covers Belichick's mentality, gives insight into how he chooses coaching assistants, provides very good info on how the defense has succeeded, and a lot of details about Matt Patricia. Very good read!

[moklerman]

No the subject is why is Belechick so good. And I think the benefit he's received from deflategate and such is inconsequential. I do not believe the Patriots win as much as they do because they cheat.
They're just better because BB is the best HC in the land.

I guess we're at an impasse then. Because I think the difference between his greatness and just being another HC in the league IS the cheating.

I just can't give him any benefit of doubt and don't understand how anyone else could either. He was a cheater then, got caught, cheated again, got caught, cheated some more...but now, he's just a good coach. It just doesn't compute.

[Will0120]

All "Great" coaches need very good QB's.
Belichick- Brady
Carroll- Wilson

Now I think what is surprising is how many times the Patriots have missed on draft picks of the last 4-5 drafts. But they do draft in volume in rounds 2-3 which could make up for it....

This.

There is a misconception that BB is this draft genius. He actually misses on A LOT of picks. Think of all the first and second round receivers that they have drafted and turned out to be busts thus far for an example.

And the proof is also in A1's original post about less than 1 out of 3 high round picks are still with the team.

In my opinion, he is blessed with having Brady @ QB and I am pretty sure there is something else shady going on under the table.

I don't often wish injury on people, but I absolutely do when it comes to Brady and BB. Let's hope that someone trucks Brady when he tries to run this Sunday and BB gets taken out in the process too.

[moklerman]

In my opinion, he is blessed with having Brady @ QB and I am pretty sure there is something else shady going on under the table.

That he can keep winning without missing a beat is why I think there is something underhanded about the mystique. To go 10-5 with Matt "I haven't started a game since high school" Cassel, 3-1 with Garrapolo...just add to my feeling that they are doing something underhanded that includes stealing signals/plays.

It's also a contradiction with them. It's been illustrated many times by many people that they are about average when it comes to drafting guys in the first 3 rounds in terms of hits and misses yet they hit on late round o-lineman, QB's, etc.? So, are they lucky or good? I mean, do they have insight that other teams don't have, which would help explain their sustained success or are they just like everyone else and just got lucky with so many picks?