[Stranger]

Those pics of JJ are unreal. I thought maybe they were photoshopped. But I guess not. Wow. I'm not nearly as old as Jeruh, and I have no real interest in partying like that, except prior to a Rams game

And wow, I didn't know the Rams office on W Pico was still open. I rode my bike past there nearly every day on my way to school.

On West Pico Boulevard in Los Angeles, an overgrown tree obscures a whitewashed, two-story building sandwiched between a radio station and a studio lot. Inside, it's a time warp. The battered carpet is blue, and the rippled wallpaper is bubbling, peeling off. Behind glass is a showcase of dull trophies and yellowed photos from another era. Everything is labeled "Los Angeles Rams." That team, of course, left LA, its home for nearly half a century, for St. Louis after the 1994 season. But on most days since, this nondescript office has remained open, staffed by two people: John Shaw, the former team president who engineered the franchise's flight from Anaheim to St. Louis, and his secretary. They work in this nearly invisible team outpost, as if the Rams never left.

[LA_Ram_#29]

really good article....lots of the stuff as far as the owners interactions in the meetings and so forth was stuff we hadn't heard..

the fact that Grubmann made a bid on the Inglewood land was new also...and very telling. All that stuff about Carson being the NFL's preferred site was non-sense and the fact that Grubmann made a bid to buy the land proves that even further...


but this article is NOT the tell all that this issue really needs.... being that it's ESPN they aren't going to dig in areas that would make the league or a team look too bad...

what this story needs is an in depth look at all the aspects of the issue...

first off.... we know from Mayor Butts that Grubmann communicated with Inglewood before Kroenke did..now we know Grubmann bid on the land... so we can assume that the NFL through Grubmann facilitated Kroenke and Inglewood from the jump...but to what degree?

also...it's obvious the writer of this article talked either to Fabiani, or people close to Fabiani because there are certain elements of the narrative that are consistent with previous claims by Fabiani. First off, I don't trust the summary of that initial meeting between Spanos and Kroenke...it's obviously being told from the Chargers perspective, and I'd bet money that the meeting would be characterized differently from Kroenke's side.

this article also promotes a greater amount of legitimacy to the Carson plan than I think the facts show it's worthy of. First off, the idea that Spanos was ready to go with something before Kroenke's announcement....that the carson city council was bout to vote on something....well, multiple sources including the mayor of carson at that time have always told a different story than that. Also the multiple lies and misstatement about the Carson project..the land ownership, the timeline, the remediation, and scores of other elements ...Fabiani would tell one story...then another...then another.... then the facts could come out and show he was lying....reporters like Vinny Bonsignore would put out Fabiani's tales, then when the facts would come out that contradict that....nobody would go back to Fabiani for an explanation. The only reporter that openly dug and questioned what Fabiani was claiming was Fred Roggin....

you barely have a mention of the land being a dump in this article, and you have no mention of the facts that just prior to the final vote...Sam Farmer reported in the LA times that Carson did not have a stadium design completed, nor had they worked out the financing yet. Again, for anyone to call the Carson plan legit, without a design, financing, or without remediation completion starting is just not factual. Again, that is an element of this story that a real tell all should deal with. Fabiani and Spanos were pulling off a charade to block Kroenke more than they were actually planning to build a stadium. For some reporters, they overlook that so they can tell a more dramatic story of carson vs. inglewoood....

also this article mentions that Spanos had been working on a stadium with San Diego but was not getting cooperation from San Diego.... now I believe that statement is not accurate. How many stadium proposals did Spanos develop and present to San Diego...during the time by the way he was paying ZERO rent to San Diego?? Spanos "efforts" in San Diego have been exaggerated from the very beginning.....

bottom line also... it was never explained how Spanos was supposed to make money borrowing from Goldman sachs...paying the relocation cost..and sharing with a team more popular than his, while moving away from the vast majority of his fans... everyone just bought into the narrative that it was legit, without anyone explaining HOW..... no stadium design...not financing plan finalized.... all together it spells out a leverage charade.....

one day someone is going to dig into all this and tell the real story...

[Elvis]

also...it's obvious the writer of this article talked either to Fabiani, or people close to Fabiani because there are certain elements of the narrative that are consistent with previous claims by Fabiani. First off, I don't trust the summary of that initial meeting between Spanos and Kroenke...it's obviously being told from the Chargers perspective, and I'd bet money that the meeting would be characterized differently from Kroenke's side.

Good stuff 29.

Kroenke probably saw what a lot of us think we see: Spanos is feckless.

He bailed on Farmers' Field. He failed to jump on Inglewood in Houston and i have a hunch we'll see more indecision from Spanos as this plays out over the next year or two.

Kroenke probably bailed on Spanos because he didn't think Spanos could be as bold or decisive as Kroenke intended to be...

[Elvis]

JT weighs in:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football ... 946f1.html

Inside the Rams relocation: A tale of intrigue, power plays and power players

by Jim Thomas

A story in ESPN The Magazine & Outside The Lines, titled The Wow Factor, provides rich behind-the scenes details of the NFL relocation vote that ended up with the Rams leaving St. Louis for owner Stan Kroenke's Inglewood stadium project in Los Angeles.

To a large degree, the article reinforces — and embellishes — months worth of reporting by the Post-Dispatch, particularly the work of reporter David Hunn.

And it does nothing to dispel the notion that:

1. The NFL steered the Rams to Los Angeles.

2. League executive Eric Grubman was pro-Inglewood and pro-Kroenke.

3. Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones was a major player in getting the Rams to Los Angeles — and out of St. Louis.

4. Old guard owners such as Jerry Richardson and Michael Bidwill lost a high stakes power-play to the new guard/new wave group.

Post-Dispatch football writer Jim Thomas isolates some highlights of the ESPN report and offers his comments:

"YOU DID IT FOR THE MONEY"

ESPN The Magazine: During a Dec. 2 meeting in Irving, Texas, Arizona Cardinals owner Michael Bidwill argued that the NFL doesn't exist just to make rich owners richer. Owners needed to consider what would be best for the league. Jerry Jones cut him off. "When you guys moved the team from St. Louis to Phoenix — it wasn't about the money?" As Bidwill tried to answer, Jones moved in for the kill: "You did it for the money." This seemed to halt the Carson momentum.

Thomas' take: Bidwill was a strong advocate of Carson and St. Louis throughout the process. He worked with Dave Peacock of the St. Louis task force trying to lobby neutral votes into the Carson camp and away from Stan Kroenke's Inglewood plan. At a gathering of St. Louis football Cardinals alumni the night before the Cardinals-Rams game Dec. 6 at the Edward Jones Dome, he even told the group he was working for St. Louis. But Jones' comments at the owners' meetings apparently cut into his effectiveness.

SECRET MEETING

ESPN, The Magazine: San Diego Chargers owner Dean Spanos and Kroenke met at Mastro's Steakhouse in Beverly Hills on Aug. 27, 2013 to discuss Los Angeles. Kroenke was enthusiastic about a 60-acre tract of land in Inglewood. After the dinner the two men agreed to stay in touch. but Kroenke never got back to Spanos. Kroenke purchased the land for $90 million, outbidding NFL executive Eric Grubman, who would become the league's point man on relocation. Nobody knew whether Grubman had bid on his own or on behalf of the league or some other buyer.

Thomas: On Oct. 2,, 2015, the Post-Dispatch reported that Spanos had approached Kroenke in 2013 about the Inglewood site, and the possibility of working together to build a stadium in Los Angeles. But Kroenke never got back to Spanos, and much to the chagrin of Spanos purchased the land himself. One interesting difference in the two stories, both sourced anonymously: in the P-D story, sources said Kroenke didn't know the Inglewood plot was for sale when he first met with Spanos. In any event, the move illustrated that Kroenke would stop at nothing to get what he wanted in LA, even if it meant alienating Spanos. After pulling off his end run for the initial Inglewood plot, Kroenke later told Spanos that, hey, he never lied to him during the initial purchase process. Maybe. But he never got back to him either.

THE GRUBMAN FACTOR

ESPN, The Magazine: On several occasions in the article, reference is made of suspicions by some owners and executives that Grubman worked for Kroenke and Inglewood, and thus against Spanos, Carson, and St. Louis. When Kroenke unveiled his Inglewood stadium plans on Jan. 5, 2015, it included a plan to fast-track the entitlement process — overcoming legal hurdles that often take years to clear. The Spanos camp had designed this creative entitlement method, based on a landmark California Supreme Court decision a few months earlier. The Spanos camp had presented this process to Grubman earlier; now Kroenke had it and was using it. The Spanos camp suspected that Grubman had alerted Kroenke to the method, which the Kroenke camp denied.

Thomas: There are a couple of other examples in the article of Grubman apparently favoring Kroenke and Inglewood, including a moment in the Aug. 11, 2015 owners meeting in Chicago where Grubman appeared to speak on Kroenke's behalf. Things reached the point at the fateful owners meeting Jan. 12 in Houston that a rumor circulated that Grubman would end up with a high-ranking executive position with the Rams in Los Angeles in exchange for his help in getting the Inglewood project approved.

We will have more on Grubman in Saturday's Post-Dispatch.

IGER JOINS CARSON

ESPN The Magazine Carolina owner Jerry Richardson met with and corresponded with Disney CEO Bob Iger on several occasions in the late summer early fall of 2015. When it became apparent that Iger favored Carson over Inglewood, Richardson paired him up with Spanos and Raiders owner Mark Davis. Commissioner Roger Goodell, who privately preferred the Inglewood site but pledged to remain neutral, thought the addition of Iger with Carson might be a potential "game-changer" for Carson.

Thomas: Iger obviously didn't prove to be a "game-changer." His presentation on Jan. 12 in Houston on behalf of Carson wasn't nearly as impressive as the Inglewood presentation by Rams executive vice president Kevin Demoff. Not even the power of Disney could save the Rams in St. Louis.

BATTLE OF THE JERRYS

ESPN The Magazine: While Jerry Jones worked the phones and spoke bluntly at league meetings on behalf of Kroenke and Inglewood, Jerry Richardson worked on behalf of Spanos, Carson, and St. Louis. Richardson took to flying his private jet around the country — it was referred to as the Jerry Tour in league circles. Richardson said the league would not only regret leaving St. Louis, but would set a bad precedent by turning away from more than $400 million in public funds for the St. Louis stadium. But Richardon's hard-charging style offended some owners. "He bullied people," according to a team executive.

Thomas: The Post-Dispatch was also told, possibly by the same source, that Richardson "bullied people" in his tour. Richardson showed his hand at league committee meetings Nov. 11, 2015 in New York when he said he was pro-Carson and pro-St. Louis. Richardson had long been pro-St. Louis, engaging St. Louis Rams fans who had attended the Chicago owners meetings that August and giving them a thumbs-up sign. Richardson represented the league's old guard, a group that dominated membership on the six-member Los Angeles Opportunities committee. But as the Houston vote ultimately showed, the new wave group of owners won this relocation battle over the old guard. In the end, in resounding fashion.

FINAL HOURS

ESPN The Magazine; Two factors that put Kroenke's Inglewood project over the top surfaced at the Houston meeting. For one, the decision to go to a secret ballot. For another, a modified version of a Jerry Jones proposal that would pair the Chargers with the Rams in Inglewood. The latter surprised the Spanos group; in their minds it was an acknowledgement that the league was endorsing a Chargers-Rams solution in Inglewood.

Thomas: One of the key unanswered questions in the entire process was how and why the league decided on a secret ballot for the Houston votes, and the article doesn't really address that issue. Secret ballots are a very rare occurrence in league matters. But several owners who apparently told Spanos to his face that they were in his corner voted the other way once the votes were secret.

[Hacksaw]

As much as it made common sense that it be the Rams that returned and that Carson was a turd,,, oh and StD was pulling out more than all the stops, this thing was closer than we may have ever imagined.

[LA_Ram_#29]

also...it's obvious the writer of this article talked either to Fabiani, or people close to Fabiani because there are certain elements of the narrative that are consistent with previous claims by Fabiani. First off, I don't trust the summary of that initial meeting between Spanos and Kroenke...it's obviously being told from the Chargers perspective, and I'd bet money that the meeting would be characterized differently from Kroenke's side.

Good stuff 29.

Kroenke probably saw what a lot of us think we see: Spanos is feckless.

He bailed on Farmers' Field. He failed to jump on Inglewood in Houston and i have a hunch we'll see more indecision from Spanos as this plays out over the next year or two.

Kroenke probably bailed on Spanos because he didn't think Spanos could be as bold or decisive as Kroenke intended to be...

I have some serious doubts that the meeting...if it actually happened.... went down how this article reports. I dunno...it just doesn't sound right..and it's consistent with the Charger side exaggerating and making up stuff.

[Elvis]

also...it's obvious the writer of this article talked either to Fabiani, or people close to Fabiani because there are certain elements of the narrative that are consistent with previous claims by Fabiani. First off, I don't trust the summary of that initial meeting between Spanos and Kroenke...it's obviously being told from the Chargers perspective, and I'd bet money that the meeting would be characterized differently from Kroenke's side.

Good stuff 29.

Kroenke probably saw what a lot of us think we see: Spanos is feckless.

He bailed on Farmers' Field. He failed to jump on Inglewood in Houston and i have a hunch we'll see more indecision from Spanos as this plays out over the next year or two.

Kroenke probably bailed on Spanos because he didn't think Spanos could be as bold or decisive as Kroenke intended to be...

I have some serious doubts that the meeting...if it actually happened.... went down how this article reports. I dunno...it just doesn't sound right..and it's consistent with the Charger side exaggerating and making up stuff.

It fits in really well with my take on things:

The NFL was his primary business, even if many owners wondered whether he possessed the sharp elbows of his father.

At Mastro's, the two men met to determine whether they might have a shared vision for Los Angeles. Kroenke was enthusiastic about a 60-acre tract of land in Inglewood, nestled between the Forum and the soon-to-be-closed Hollywood Park racetrack. Earlier in the year, Kroenke had driven around the site at 5:30 a.m. and raved about its potential to Rams chief operating officer Kevin Demoff and to Jones. Spanos, though, was cool on the Inglewood location, citing concerns about parking and traffic.

Kroenke has this great vision, great piece of land that he's super excited about and feckless Spanos is worried about the parking?

Whatever good qualities Spanos may have, he's not bold, he's not a doer...

[Elvis]

And BTW, notice how none of this had a lick to do with Dave Peacock or St. Louis?

This was never about St. Louis, or any of the cities.

The NFL is an organization of, by and for NFL owners. This was always, and only about the owners, never about the cities...

[TSFH Fan]

Kroenke probably saw what a lot of us think we see: Spanos is feckless.

I imagine JJ going on his spiel about LA needs someone with big balls, then reaching into a bag of popcorn, pulling out 2 unpopped kernels, holding them up and saying something like, Spanos' plan just doesn't measure up.

JJ -- Born in SoCal. Better believe it.

Can't wait for the movie.

So, maybe name one of the side streets "Jones Way"?

F U Jerry Richardson. F U Panthers. F U Jerry Richardson. Oh, and just in case I forget, F U Jerry Richardson.

About the Grubman involvement -- I wonder how much is it that the NFL office has run all kinds of numbers, all kinds of market projections and simulations, seen the financials for all the owners and all the franchises, conducted major and comprehensive investigations into both the Carson and Inglewood sites, and concluded, really, that there simply was no competition and that there was little chance that the Carson project could make it work. In other words, I wonder if Grubman's demeanor was influenced by him concluding early on that Carson/Davis/Spanos was a complete joke and Inglewood first rate, first class, and the real deal.

Did I mention F U Jerry Richardson?

[snackdaddy]

Jerry Jones is my new hero. Couldn't have got er done without him. Stan owes him. But I'm sure he's got Jerry's back in other issues.