[ramsww]

Good call.

A lot of new starters. Rookies Archuleta and Polley starting. Rookies Pickett and Lewis (3 starts) in DL rotation. Rookie CB Jeremetrius Butler. 2nd year DT Brian Young starting. 4th year players Wistrom and Fletcher starting. New additions including LB Mark Fields (Starting), CB Aeneas Williams (S), S Kim Herring (S), DE Chidi Ahonatu (S) and DT Tyoka Jackson a big contributor. 7 "new" starters. Wasn't that a remodel?

NO, that was Georgia’s FIRE SALE after she got her Lombardi and put it next to the one she stole from Al Davis. After the Rams let so many players go like Fletcher, Carter, Gruttadauria, Jeff Robinson, Fred Miller, Billy Jenkins and on and on. All starters in SB XXXIV. They had to do a major retooling but we still had more than one starter on D and just because it’s AD in 2023, people expect him to save a D full of ? marks.

[ramsww]

I just showed you quotes from an interview with Aaron Donald and yet you turn to PR put out by Snead to what? Cover his ass? I’ll take AD’s comments at face value. He didn’t see this coming…..hmm kinda like being blindsided but you too are welcome to your opinion.

[PARAM]

NO, that was Georgia’s FIRE SALE after she got her Lombardi and put it next to the one she stole from Al Davis. After the Rams let so many players go like Fletcher, Carter, Gruttadauria, Jeff Robinson, Fred Miller, Billy Jenkins and on and on. All starters in SB XXXIV. They had to do a major retooling but we still had more than one starter on D and just because it’s AD in 2023, people expect him to save a D full of ? marks.

What difference does the"why" make? We're talking about a huge defensive turnover, not why. Stick to the point. As far as "we still have 1 starter on D", we actually have 3 returning. To your 2nd and 3rd string comments in a previous post...."what?"

[/zn/]

I just showed you quotes from an interview with Aaron Donald and yet you turn to PR put out by Snead to what? Cover his ass? I’ll take AD’s comments at face value. He didn’t see this coming…..hmm kinda like being blindsided but you too are welcome to your opinion.

He didn't see it coming.

But when directly told it was coming, he signed off on it.

[/zn/]

NO, that was Georgia’s FIRE SALE after she got her Lombardi and put it next to the one she stole from Al Davis. After the Rams let so many players go like Fletcher, Carter, Gruttadauria, Jeff Robinson, Fred Miller, Billy Jenkins and on and on. All starters in SB XXXIV. They had to do a major retooling but we still had more than one starter on D and just because it’s AD in 2023, people expect him to save a D full of ? marks.

The main reason for the defensive re-tooling in 2001 was the complete collapse of the defense in 2000. in 99 the Rams D was 4th in points and 6th in yards, in 2000 they were 31st in points and 23rd in yards, in 2001 they were 7th in points and 3rd in yards. So what they did in 2001 worked.

Fletcher was a big part of the 2001 D. He was eventually allowed to walk through the sheer incompetence of Shaw/Zygmunt. They didn't "save money" by undervaluing Fletcher and in fact signed expensive FAs that season. Famously, or infamously, Fletcher signed for less with Buffalo than Zygmunt anticipated he would.

In terms of the additions, the 2001 D started 4 free agents/trades, 2 rookies, and 6 carry over players (counting Little so making it 12). Of the carry overs, 3 had been starters previously.

The 2023 D will start: no FAS, 1 rookie, 3 previous starters, and 7 2nd to 4th year carry overs who had not started previously (though many of them played previously). They don't have the veteran FAs 2001 did, but unlike 2001 it's not a new defensive system. I doubt the changes in 23 will be as dramatic as in 2001 (of course), but I also am betting it won't be as bad as some are predicting.

...

[ramsww]

good points and yeah, I forgot the year Fletcher actually left for Washington. I guess my concerns are the same as the general public. ALL teams have stars on both sides of the ball. On D we have AD but beyond that, meh. Until they show they won’t get rolled people will doubt the D. Buffalo crushed us and we HAD AD, Ramsey, Jones and Wagner on the field.

[actionjack]

The way they did it suggests they are accounting for the inexperience with mentors/leaders who may help accelerate the development.

Donald for the DL
Jones for the LB corp
Fuller for the secondary and then they sign Witherspoon for the subset, cornerbacks.

As ZN points out
..Bobby Brown has been around as well as Copeland.

One concern is the DL subset of edge rushers has no leader but McVay explained that. There are a number of guys competing but they may also be complimenting one another.

We believe it all centers on Byron Young.....it does to some degree (he'll definitely be on the 53)....and Hoecht but Hardy and Thomas have some experience; Hampton and Ochan will at least be on the ps. I could see a situation where one of Hardy/Thomas and one of Hampton/Ochan are on the ps, while the other is on the 53 and the competition will be a season long event.

I get the inexperience and the hope that it develops over the season but it's not like it hasn't happened before. The 2001 Rams and the 2022 KC Chiefs and probably another (or two) we can't recall right now. But the success or lack thereof for the 2023 Rams rests solely on the offense's shoulders. The 99 defense was not that talented but the situation TGSOT put them in helped immensely.

There is one positive to youth and inexperience......they don't know what they don't know

I highly doubt that the Rams would expose a Edge draft pick to the PS. Ochan in particular has raised some eyebrows with his play, of course he tweaked a knee and will be out a few weeks. I think most of the draft picks make the squad, I would imagine the PS will be full of mostly UDFA's.

[Elvis]

NO, that was Georgia’s FIRE SALE after she got her Lombardi and put it next to the one she stole from Al Davis. After the Rams let so many players go like Fletcher, Carter, Gruttadauria, Jeff Robinson, Fred Miller, Billy Jenkins and on and on. All starters in SB XXXIV. They had to do a major retooling but we still had more than one starter on D and just because it’s AD in 2023, people expect him to save a D full of ? marks.

This isn't even remotely true.

There was no fire sale after the SB win in '99. Fletcher and Carter were on the 2000 defense that sucked so bad. Trading Carter to Tennessee and moving Leonard Little to DE was part of the fix for the very good 2001 defense.

The offensive players you mention, Jeff Robison? The offense was #1 in the NFL 3 years running. It was the defense that was all over the map.

But there were coaching changes. Vermeil retired, defensive coordinator Bunting left and while the offense stayed great, the 2000 defense was atrocious. Martz brought in Lovie Smith and a bunch of new starters who immediately turned the defense around for 2001.

As Rams fans we've seen some pretty remarkable turnarounds. The offense in '99 with Martz. The defense in 2001 with Lovie, and the offense again in 2017 with McVay.

The conventional wisdom is these things take time. My experience as a Rams fan, not always...

[PARAM]

This isn't even remotely true.

Just like it's not even remotely true, you can't win with young players on defense......as long as you have a damn good offense. I know I've pointed this out previously but take the KC Chiefs.

2021 (#27 in yards allowed/#8 in pts allowed):
DL: Ingram, Reed, Jones, Clark
LB: Gay, Hitchens, Bolton
CB: Ward, Sneed
S: Mathieu, Thornhill

2022 (#11 in yards allowed/ #16 in pts allowed):
DL: Karlaftis (R), Nnadi, Jones, Clark
LB: Gay, Chenal (R), Bolton (2nd yr)
CB: Sneed, McDuffie (R)
S: Reid, Thornhill

plus 7th round rookie CB, Jalen Watson started 6 games, Clark missed 2 games, Gay missed 4, Thornhill missed 1.

The Chiefs brought in 6 new guys. McDuffie missed 6 games and Watson stepped in for him. So it can be done. I'm not saying the Rams are going to the SB but that's not the argument. I think they have a good chance to have a winning season and a decent chance to make the postseason DESPITE all the rookies and 2nd/3rd year guys on the defense......AS LONG AS THE OFFENSE REGAINS FORM.

[ramsww]

Just like it's not even remotely true, you can't win with young players on defense......as long as you have a damn good offense. I know I've pointed this out previously but take the KC Chiefs.

2021 (#27 in yards allowed/#8 in pts allowed):
DL: Ingram, Reed, Jones, Clark
LB: Gay, Hitchens, Bolton
CB: Ward, Sneed
S: Mathieu, Thornhill

2022 (#11 in yards allowed/ #16 in pts allowed):
DL: Karlaftis (R), Nnadi, Jones, Clark
LB: Gay, Chenal (R), Bolton (2nd yr)
CB: Sneed, McDuffie (R)
S: Reid, Thornhill

plus 7th round rookie CB, Jalen Watson started 6 games, Clark missed 2 games, Gay missed 4, Thornhill missed 1.

The Chiefs brought in 6 new guys. McDuffie missed 6 games and Watson stepped in for him. So it can be done. I'm not saying the Rams are going to the SB but that's not the argument. I think they have a good chance to have a winning season and a decent chance to make the postseason DESPITE all the rookies and 2nd/3rd year guys on the defense......AS LONG AS THE OFFENSE REGAINS FORM.

I already posted the “Chef’s” having 10 rookies and 4 of them starters in the SB. Why hasn’t this been moved to another thread. Come on guys, follow your own rules. Of course I’m kidding and yes I forgot the fire sale took 2-3 yrs to complete following the ‘99 SB but Georgia did let a lot of players walk combined with Martz’ horrific draft classes but hey, free to argue that too.

I already said young players can win. I just don’t think we have those players on D. A few. Not enuff.