[moklerman]

Think it's from here:

Yeah, just found that link by accident. Like I said, it's the first I've heard of it. Maybe it's true but no one other than Ashley Fox is reporting it. Not sure what her qualifications are.

[-X-]

Glimpses is all we got from Bradford.
I've seen glimpses of greatness from Jason Campbell too but overall his career says what he is.
The best defense of Bradford essentially comes down to a 2 game stretch vs 2 of the worst teams in football. Ignoring the crap sandwich he put up against Dallas (a horrible d that year) and San Fran the week after cant be ignored.
When he showed a glimpse it was all Sam and when he sucked it was all the teams fault.
I'll never understand the love affair with Bradford, the level of impunity he gets with some.
I'm glad it's in the past, he's Phillys problem now. And by the post you originally made its pretty obvious they aren't old that sold on him either.
Sanchez still has a ton of support around here. I'm not predicting he'll win the job over Sam but I wouldn't be surprised if he did either.

I've seen more than glimpses from Bradford. I haven't seen a ton of Jason Campbell, but I've seen enough to know that there's no comparison. Those two games against SF and DAL weren't very good, sure, but what everyone fails to mention is that there was 56 total rushing yards (combined) in those games. I think it's the one pass to Pettis that he misfired on that had everyone up in arms. And it's not necessarily a glaring indictment that everyone points to two games in his career as *proof* that he's not very good.

Do I think he's great? No, not at all. But I don't think he's as bad as others have made him out to be either. I think, as others have already said, Kurt Warner nailed it in his assessment of Bradford. He's very talented, but he's too overly cautious. I don't know if that's a product of being coached by Spagnuolo (and his 2 second whistle) and Fisher, or if he didn't trust his receivers to win battles, or if he's just plain afraid to screw up. Maybe Kelly can install some confidence in him and we'll finally see the guy we all hoped to see. Or he simply can't be fixed and this is just another player who (for whatever reason) couldn't reach his full potential.

[moklerman]

Do I think he's great? No, not at all. But I don't think he's as bad as others have made him out to be either. I think, as others have already said, Kurt Warner nailed it in his assessment of Bradford. He's very talented, but he's too overly cautious. I don't know if that's a product of being coached by Spagnuolo (and his 2 second whistle) and Fisher, or if he didn't trust his receivers to win battles, or if he's just plain afraid to screw up. Maybe Kelly can install some confidence in him and we'll finally see the guy we all hoped to see. Or he simply can't be fixed and this is just another player who (for whatever reason) couldn't reach his full potential.

I think that's what many get hung up on, there's no smoking gun so to speak. It wasn't just one thing with Bradford. It wasn't just the defensive HC's. It wasn't just the vanilla OC's. It wasn't just the 4 different OC's in 5 years. It wasn't just the abbreviated/lack of offseasons his first two years. It wasn't just the o-line with all the injuries and poor performances. It wasn't just never having a #1 WR. It wasn't just the carousel at WR or all the drops and guys who weren't good/ready, it wasn't just the lack of a running game, it wasn't just the untimely penalties.

I was just watching the top 10 show on NFLN and Steve Young was on one of their lists. And that's, until proven otherwise, what I think about Sam Bradford. Young was a stud in college, a bust in the USFL and pretty bad with the Buccaneers. Did that mean he wasn't any good or that his teams were pretty lousy? I think he was a good QB in bad situations.

I really don't have any doubt that Bradford will put up numbers if Philly's as good as it's been the past couple of years. What I'm curious about is re-uniting with Shurmur. I couldn't stand that guy as the Rams OC but he was thought of pretty highly by some in the league. It will be interesting to me to see if the Eagles are able to score points with what Sam is always criticized for. Because it seems to me that the Eagles offense is designed to get the ball out quick and let the playmakers make plays. That sounds like what the Rams were trying to do back in 2010 but they just didn't have playmakers. Or a line that could pass block really well.

[Elvis]

I'm gonna say no:

[/zn/]

Kurt Warner has criticized his mentality and aggressiveness as a QB

Interesting discussion. My 2 cents. Injuries aside. And granting that his is all about history, since Foles is the qb. But then people like discussing history.

In a word, I don;t think Warner DID say that, to be frank. In that interview, Warner was very complimentary of Bradford. He said he had only one hesitation/criticism of Bradford and that was his not taking risks in making deep throws. Some mistook Warner as saying he lacked confidence, but that's not what I heard. What I heard was that he did not have confidence in those throws in those situations. Some took Warner as saying Bradford didn't throw the long ball. That couldn't be the case, since in 2012, according to PFF, Bradford was 7th in the league in pass attempts of 20 yards or more. I just took Warner as meaning that there were times Bradford erred on the side of caution but that Bradford needed to take those risks that if he were going to take the next step.

I think Bradford did well under Fisher when he had 2 things at the same time: a relatively healthy OL (ie. not an extensively injured one) AND a running threat. He was also deadly inside the 10 (among the 3-4 best in the league), and from 2012-13 had a fair share of 4th quarter comebacks. That's in spite of having limited resources at WR in those years.

And if you look at the 4th quarter comebacks he is making the throws late that Warner said he wouldn't make.
Just an example---see the plays on the final drive against Buffalo, 2012, starting at the 1:42 mark. Look particularly for the throw to Kendricks and the 2 throws to Gibson.

http://www.stlouisrams.com/videos/video ... 99d9bce70e


..

[Pancake]

Bradford did often look his best late in games when he had to take some risks.

[Elvis]

I think Warner's words are pretty clear:

http://www.hngn.com/articles/95006/2015 ... upside.htm

"I think the biggest thing that I have seen with Sam in his short career is that I want to see him get the confidence back that he believes he can make every throw on the football field. I think there was a time in St. Louis where he got to the point where he was more afraid to make a mistake than to make a play. He managed games instead of playing up to his potential. I believe if he plays up to his potential he can be a really good quarterback in the National Football League."

[/zn/]

I think Warner's words are pretty clear:

http://www.hngn.com/articles/95006/2015 ... upside.htm

"I think the biggest thing that I have seen with Sam in his short career is that I want to see him get the confidence back that he believes he can make every throw on the football field. I think there was a time in St. Louis where he got to the point where he was more afraid to make a mistake than to make a play. He managed games instead of playing up to his potential. I believe if he plays up to his potential he can be a really good quarterback in the National Football League."

That's not the one I heard. I was referring to something on 101, and I thought you were too. I think that this one is more negative than the one I was discussing, and IMO just that much less accurate than the one I was discussing.



The idea that Bradford was more afraid to make a mistake than a play is just hyperbole, IMO. I never saw that. It doesn't fit what we were seeing in his last 3 games in 2013, nor in the 2014 pre-season. It's more like a description of Alex Smith than of Bradford. I will take that Kurt over the Kurt you quoted, and even then, the 101 Kurt was still too hung up on the early 2013 games, when they were throwing short a bunch to make up for no running game.

You could see the game-changing plays and confidence and so on in 2012 and in his last 3 games of 2013. It was just there. It was visible. Again, check out the highlights I provided, and that's just one example. "Afraid to make plays" does not describe that qb. I think "conservative until they needed him to go for it" does, but that describes a coaching philosophy, not a player's mindset.

Warner has also said more than once that playing qb means you need a team around you, and he has stressed that in various discussions of Bradford.

Again, this is history. But it's fun to discuss history.

[Elvis]

BTW, welcome to the forum /zn/.

I don't know if i'd call Bradford afraid exactly but for my money he favored the sideline and dump offs too much over attacking the middle of the field. And that's not to say he never threw a nice intermediate ball in the middle of the field. Just seemed like he shied away from it. Was it coaching, was it Bradford? I don't know.

I do know when Kellen Clemens came in he pretty much only threw the intermediate middle of the field throws. No doubt some of that was because he didn't have the arm to make a lot of other throws but still i would certainly have liked to see Bradford be more aggressive in his choice of throws.

Whether or not this is on Bradford himself, or how much is on Bradford, i really can't say. I am very interested to see him in Phili if he can get healthy...

[/zn/]

I don't know if i'd call Bradford afraid exactly but for my money he favored the sideline and dump offs too much over attacking the middle of the field.

Hi. thanks for the welcome. I promise in the future this will not be my only topic.

As for your statement I quote? There will be different opinions on a controversial figure but I really don't think that was him. I think that was the offense accounting for who and what they had. For example once Britt was signed and Quick was finally coming through, the Rams made a real effort to attack the middle of the field, including deep medium routes. It' just that we only saw that in the 2014 pre-season.

As for checking down and dumping off, to me that's just an inaccurate perception. That sounds blunt but it's honest. I see why people get that impression but that's not the impression I got and the numbers don't back the idea that he was a dump-off king (not your words but forget it, I'm on a roll...Animal House reference.) As I said, PFF has his 7th in attempts of 20 yards or more in 2012. I did the numbers myself on attempts of 31+ yards for 2012 and 2013 combined and his percentage of total attempts in that range was very healthy, right up there. I also did the numbers on Amendola for his career and the only year where he has any real presence on passes of 20 yards or more is in 2012. So at least they tried to make the most of what they had. It goes on and on.

(That stuff is all posted somewhere and is retrievable, but I am short on time this week and so just have to wing it.)

Plus, again, you look at the comebacks, and it's not even debatable. He is hitting the deep medium routes in the middle on those (15-20 yarders). What I always saw with the conservative Bradford was a qb who was supposed to minimize mistakes with a sub-par receiving corps until it was time to unleash it, such as for example...4th quarter comeback situations. I also thought that was all going to be cured in 2014, but then, the rest is history...which is why we're discussing history.