[PARAM]

the weirdest take is trying to paint goff as some sort of turnover machine.... he's had 4 games in the last 27 where turnovers have come in bunches, and of course they're the games some immediately think of to support their case (bias?), but in 23 of the 27 games he's taken care of the ball better than 24 other guys/teams... but let's not consider that, instead let's decide that goff's a turnover machine and can't win unless everything is perfect, good grief.

It's a memory thing.

goff's obviously been inconsistent this season, he started the year 4-1 and ranked 6th in qb rating and 4th in completion % during the stretch, since then he's gone 3-3 and booked three miserable games in the process.... hopefully he and mcvay can turn things around in the next 5 games and look strong, or at least better than average, on offense headed into the postseason.

Is there anybody on this forum saying something different? I mean other than the armageddon preppers, of course.

[PARAM]

What's a "turnover machine"?
Goff's second in the NFL in turnovers this season.

Goff has 14 turnovers. He's had 3 games with none (3-0), 5 games with 1 (3-2), 1 game with 2 (1-0) and two games (4 and 3) with more than 2 (0-2). He's got 14 turnovers and he "shits the bed". And he's done it 2 times this year.

Russell Wilson has 13 turnovers and we hear nada, nothing, zilch. He's got 5 games with none (5-0). He's got 3 games with 1 (3-0). He's got 3 games (3, 4, 3) with more than 2 (0-3). Wilson is a hero. He never shits the bed. Except when he does. And when he does, Seattle loses. And he's done it 3 times this year.

Caveat (sorry dick). He's a much better QB than Goff.

[PARAM]

We're gonna compare Russell Wilson and what he does for Seattle's offense to Goff and what he does?

Honestly... another "unforced, bad decision".

Wilson's postseason passer rating is 20 points higher than Goff.. he's won a Super Bowl and been to a second one and is an MVP candidate.

When Goff proves, consistently, that he can win the biggest games? I'll stop worrying about his shit the bed games.
He's also rushed for 380 yards this season.

Don't want to have a serious discussion about Goff's problems? Got it.

What you didn't see my caveat? I acknowledged Wilson is a much better QB than Goff. And still he's shit the bed 3 times this year!!! And by your own admission Wilson is 1-1 in the two biggest games in his life. Now if you want to have a serious discussion, at least acknowledge that even the best QBs in the NFL "shit the bed" from time to time. You act as if Goff invented it. And read the thread. Nobody is saying he's been consistent, save for you and a few others saying he's been consistently bad.

[PARAM]

Nope. You're having a different conversation, and feel free to have that one.

I'm talking about Jared Goff and what's going on with *him*.



You're on some bizarre tangent.

I am? We're talking about turnovers. You indicated "Jared Goff is #2 in the NFL in turnovers" and that's what's perplexing you. The Rams are 7-4. Goff has been to a Superbowl and lost. The Rams are 40-20 with Goff under center. So Jared Goff, with a 40-20 record under center, a SB appearance and a number of great games under his belt, can't "shit the bed" even though guys like Russell Wilson (#3 in turnovers) or Tom Brady (1-4 against good D's in 2020) shit the bed too? Okay. You don't want to have a serious discussion. You are simply pissed the Rams have lost 4 games and Goff's had some shitty games, so you want to rail on Goff and vent. The wins? No, that's McVay and the defense right? Well, some might say that's a bizarre tangent. Dick says "If Jared Goff can win a Superbowl, he can shit the bed and it'll be okay with me".

Russell Wilson has won a Super Bowl and shown he can be relied on to excel in the playoffs... Jared hasn't.

Jared hasn't? Oh right, we can't talk about the New Orleans game because it's ancient history and 'everything went right for Goff most of that game'. In a young career.....3.5 years starting in a legit NFL offense, 2-2 in the postseason, winning a conference championship game and "he can't be counted on to excel in the playoffs". WHAT?????? Time for you to recalibrate brother.

[aeneas1]

ha ha, this is too much, goff has 2 bad turnover games which account for 50% of his turnovers on the year, 2 games that push him to near the top of the league in qb turnovers, and he has a turnover prob...

[PARAM]

If *you* can't figure out why I wouldn't be worried about Russell Wilson in the playoffs but am worried about Jared Goff.. and why the turnovers are a chief concern of mine in that regard.. than maybe football isn't the sport for you to be a fan of.

No.. I'm not just pissed that Goff had shitty games. I'm pissed that he makes the same type of absolutely boneheaded type of turnovers. Don't see it? Good for you.

And.. duh... if he puts together clean games in the playoffs and wins a Super Bowl.. you will *not* hear me fret about it in the future.

My concerns are completely valid and only someone with complete blinders on would suggest that it's not.

Who said he hasn't had bad games? Who said your concerns aren't valid? No dick. No blinders here. He's got issues to correct. But because he's had some issues, you can't count on him in the playoffs and I'm assuming the tough regular season games either? If he plays like he did against SF and Miami, you're right.

If he puts together clean games in the playoffs and wins a Superbowl, we will not hear you fret about it in the future? Sounds reasonable. I'd be confident with Wilson too. The guy is amazing. Mahomes too. Currently the best. Brady? Sure has done it many times but 43? Just out of curiosity, how would you feel about Foles in the playoffs. Or Flacco?

Until Jared Goff wins a Superbowl, we can't call him a champion. That's a fact. Unless he puts it all together, that won't happen. Can he? Will he? I don't know.

[ramsman34]

Interesting point A1.

I have always believed it is not the number of turnovers per se. it’s when they happen, what is the net result of the opposition’s immediate possession, and to a lesser extent, did your defense turn them over (what was the result when we got the ball back on O). Basically, what is the result in TOs; who had the advantage in amount, and who capitalized on the scoreboard from the TOs.

Depending on when JG has turned it over, one could state that he either A. Killed a scoring drive (turn over in + territory/red zone), led to a direct opposition score (pick 6, scoop and score), led to indirect score (opposition got ball and from either for a TD/FG), did no damage as opp couldn’t move ball and punted, or your D got you the ball back before any damage done, an erasure play as I like to call it.

So people, apply all that shit to Goff and his turnovers. See what results you get. Weight and rank the data and do some analysis. Then do the same for Rogers, Brees, Brady, Wilson, Mahomes, etc.

I wonder what that would reveal.

Anyway, back to Goff. It’s just statistically better to not turn the ball over anytime or anywhere. There are just some turnovers worse than others. I personally thought Brown’s fumble was an absolute drive killer. We were in a groove.

[ramsman34]

Ya see, some turnovers just don’t hurt you. And others kill you. The law of probability suggests the more you turn it over, the greater the chances of a “killer”. That seems like Dick’s point: Frequency. Like my prior post, I don’t see it quite that way. But, I recognize the more one turns it over, the greater the chance those turn overs cause one to get beat.

[ramsman34]

Me either!

And my *frustration* is because of the type of brain-dead fucking turnovers they are!

Why is that an issue?????

Seriously. They piss me off because they are sooooooooooooo bad.
I mean... if you play a defense and they just make great interceptions... I'll acknowledge that. Sometimes you make a throw that's high reward and you take a risk... that can be okay.
Throwing the ball into Sherman's hands? Fumbling because you don't slide? Throwing the ball right at a Dlineman for the second time this season?
These are absolutely maddening!

Sheesh!

Your definition of “bad turnover” is pretty subjective. They “look” bad, some atrocious. But say he has a “bad” turnover that leads to nothing. Ok, it kills a drive but, what if he takes a sack instead then we punt? And in each of these scenarios the other team goes 3 and out after? Then they are basically the same shit as they had the exact same net result. Now we all know in both the Miami game and against the whiners he had killer turnovers that led directly to opposition TDs. How many of those has he had, did we lose the games he had them in (KC in 2018 comes to mind), and does he have a “turnover problem” when looking at it through that lens and the one I detailed in an earlier post?

[ramsman34]

Indeed. And I do think JG has had some ball security issues and they seem to be happening in bunches and more frequently. Yet, we are 7-4 with 5 to go, currently the 5th seed with everything still open to us; including the #1 seed. Perhaps we should temper our expectations - both negative and positive - and see what happens and how JG plays. I am also in the A1 camp the MCV is not exactly coaching lights out lately either. Both JG and MCV need to improve.

And so ya know, ya I was fucking livid in real time watching all those turnovers. But I mellow out a few days later and try to be more objective and long sighted.