[Elvis]

Merged the Goff threads since they're pretty much all the same conversation at this point. (And it makes it much easier to lock if things get too out of hand.)

Who was the QB everyone used to argue about if they were elite or not a couple years ago, was it Ryan? I'm drawing a blank...

[aeneas1]

A1 i'm glad someone agrees with me...

if goff isn't top 5 on your list, then to me your take is tainted... and i could really care less why...

naysayers always bring up past performances, and former glory... sorry guys i live in the now, and i know what i see...

sure he struggled against chicago, and was shut down in the SB, but to think goff is less that top 5?...

tell me 4 other guys you would trade goff for right now, so i can laff my ass off...

go rams

slo

i think most rams fans are thrilled with they've seen from goff since mcvay's arrival, which to me makes perfect sense, and i think the responses to this thread overwhelmingly underscore that sentiment given the very few qbs folks would be willing to swap for him (save for one fan who is still in mourning, and another who, well, whatever).

Homers always cherry pick games and stats. Sorry I live in the real world.... he strruggled in 6 games last year...."

[/zn/]

given the very few qbs folks would be willing to swap for him

That was fake. You listed qbs in their decline or at least much older. No one trades a young qb for an older one who is past his prime. Of all the qbs listed, the ones chosen were younger (Mahomes and Wilson.)

Posed that way, the question doesn't tell us how people assess Goff overall, measured against top standards, or where he's at in his development.

So turn your list around and you answer this yourself: how many qbs would you trade Goff as he is NOW for those qbs in their prime?

That tells us better where people rank Goff now in this stage of his development.

You WOULDN'T trade Goff NOW for Brady in his prime? Rodgers in his prime? Brees in his prime? Roethlisberger in his prime?

So given that (since no one is going to lie and say they wouldn't do that...mostly they will just avoid answering...) ... what does that tell us about Goff at this stage of his development?

Well I would say he is on his way to tier one but wasn't there yet in his third year. He is just not there yet compared to those top qbs in their prime. Which, frankly, is no surprise. Or shouldn't be.


...

[moklerman]

so in you estimation 7 guys have played better than goff over the past two season, what a suprise... thank god bradford's unemployed or it would no doubt be 8!

you're up max!

Well, considering those 55 coaches and executives moved him "up" to 12th this year, I'd say 8th is pretty generous by me.

[moklerman]

A coupla questions......playing better THE LAST 2 YEARS based on what? Mahomes has played 17 games the last 2 years. How can that qualify?



"Cherry picking the last 2 seasons to try and make it look like Goff has been better than he has...."? Really? Isn't that what the conversation is about, the last 2 years?

More questions:
Can you name the QBs who:
have had a QB rating over 100 the past 2 years? Hint: There are 3. (Goff is 1 of them)
have got their team to the postseason the past 2 years? Hint: There are 3. (Goff is 1 of them)
have had more passing yards than Jared Goff the past 2 years? Hint: There are 4
have had more TD passes than Jared Goff the past 2 years? Hint: There are 4

So there's the catagories.....QB rating (a measure of their performance), Postseason appearances (a measure of how successful they were), Passing yards (a measure of their production), TD passes (a measure of their production).....and Goff ranks in the top 5 in all of them. Yet YOU can find "plenty of QBs playing at a higher level than Goff"?

Well, what is 2 years? 32 games? Are only QB's who played in all 32 games eligible? Why is 2 years so significant? Why not 3? Why not just last year?

The point is, it's just an arbitrary slice of time that includes Mahomes only playing 1 full season, Luck being out for a year with an injury, Brees and the Saints experimenting with a more run heavy scheme, etc.

Goff put up some very good numbers. So why is it he is not even considered a top 10 QB by those in the know?

[aeneas1]

That was fake. You listed qbs in their decline or at least much older. No one trades a young qb for an older one who is past his prime.

honestly dude, the stuff you come up with...

i asked two questions:

- for the 2017-2018 stretch, what qbs have played better than goff?

are you under the impression that only "qbs in their decline or at least much older" played during the 2017-2018 stretch?

- if you could swap goff for any qb right now, who would it be?

note the word "any" in this question, do you see it? did you take that word to mean only "qbs in their decline or at least much older"?

as far as your other keen observation "no one trades a young qb for an older one who is past his prime", are you telling me that the tampa, chicago, baltimore, miami, washington, new york (jets) and buffalo fanbases (to name a few), would not be interested in swapping their young qb for any number of active qbs? really? really?

[aeneas1]

Well, considering those 55 coaches and executives moved him "up" to 12th this year, I'd say 8th is pretty generous by me.

altho sando doesn't ask 55 nfl coaches and executives which qbs have played the best over the last couple of years, you clearly do like the list for what it is, it makes sense to you, which is fine.

but why then do you struggle to see that bradford was a mediocre (talk about generous) qb? after his season with the eagles under offensive wizard chip kelly, and right before he joined the vikes, sando's team of multiple nfl coaches and executives ranked bradford 28th out of 33 qbs. almost half (48%) of the nfl coaches and execs contacted rated sammy 4th tier or worse - let me repeat that. almost half (48%) of the nfl coaches and execs contacted rated sammy 4th tier or worse.

who did they think was better than sammy? brock osweiler, tyrod taylor, ryan fitzpatrick, blake bortles and just about everyone else.

--------------

some of their comments:

"He has the arm talent, I think he is a smart guy, I think he is a little [soft], which came out in the way he handled his business to begin with this offseason (referring to how he handled the drafting of Wentz)."

"I just don't see the decision-making, consistent accuracy and the fortitude that [makes me think] we have a shot to win every Sunday. With Doug Pederson coaching, I would take Alex Smith over Bradford..."

"I'm not the greatest Bradford guy, I don't think he can create anything himself, and in this day and age, pockets aren't going to be clean."

--------------

so do you finally agree that bradford was a bottom of the barrel qb, i mean almost half of the nfl coaches and execs who weighed in seemed to think so.

[/zn/]

i asked two questions:

- for the 2017-2018 stretch, what qbs have played better than goff?

are you under the impression that only "qbs in their decline or at least much older" played during the 2017-2018 stretch?

And I countered with a better question.

All your list of qbs tells us is that if people are going to swap Goff now for present qbs, they would take young qbs, not guys past their prime.

That doesn''t tell us where Goff ranks now, in this stage of his development, against a general standard of qb excellence. So...(and I said some people would avoid answering this)...which of the qbs on your list would you swap for Goff now, if those qbs were in their prime?

Goff is a developing qb. How far along is he? Answering my question gives a better picture of that.

Not, would you switch Goff for a bunch of guys past their prime. No one is going to say yes to that.

And I am okay with him being a good, developing third year qb on his way to being a tier one qb. Saying that doesn't diminish what he is. He has already proved a lot, including the fact that he has the poise and mental toughness to be a clutch qb.

....

[aeneas1]

And I countered with a better one.

you countered with nonsense, but that's a different conversation.

you seem to still be laboring under the impression that i only included old men as qb options, what can i do to better explain it to you, to help you understand the questions i asked, i'm fluent in spanish if that's better for you, help me help you.

[/zn/]

you countered with nonsense, but that's a different conversation.

you seem to still be laboring under the impression that i only included old men as qb options, what can i do to better explain it to you, to help you understand the questions i asked, i'm fluent in spanish if that's better for you, help me help you.

You were never very good when disagreed with. Slamming is your default response.

But carry on. Nothin I can do about it.