[aeneas1]

LOL, my god. Nobody is saying pick one or the other. I presented it that way ....." Mark Sanchez had 10 fourth quarter game winning drives and Warner had 9, who would you rather have? ".... to show how ridiculous 4th quarter comebacks are classified and by being classified in that fashion, over-valued when it comes to comparing QBs, to a certain degree. Nobody in their right mind would pick Sanchez over Warner....even today!!! Nobody would say, "given a choice in who's hands I want the ball with 5 minutes left in the game needing a score to win, you can have Warner, I want Sanchez"!!!! Can that actually be misread?

But somehow you've turned it into "its a false dichotomy". You're smarter than that. Nobody was saying that. What's false is the way 4th quarter comebacks are classified....taking your team to a win in the 4th quarter.....could be with 2 minutes gone in the 4th or 12 minutes. It's ridiculous if a guy takes his team down to score with 13 minutes left in the game and being the final score, it's considered a "4th quarter comeback" in the sense most value it. Hell, he still has to manage the game and the lead for the last 13 minutes anyway, which could be one possession, two or three and kinda makes him more like a game manager than "captain comeback"!!

When I think of 4th quarter comeback capable quarterbacks, I think of the guy who gets the ball with 4 minutes left (or less) and takes the team down to score. That's a game winning drive (but so is the one that occured with 13 minutes left in the game). But it's the difference between the game winning hit occurring in the 5th inning and the ninth inning. Their both game winning hits but they ain't nothing alike.

Here's one from "PFR" Peyton is credited with: The score occurred 7 seconds into the 4th quarter and the funny thing is Joseph Addai threw the pass to Reggie Wayne. Now isn't this all just a bit ridiculous? The winning score wasn't 1 minute into the 4th. Hell the drive obviously started in the third quarter!!! Doesn't it make you wonder how many other 4th quarter comebacks listed were like that? Even a little bit? You seem to be a smart guy. And FWIW, in a court of law the judge might uphold an objection to that evidence as a 4th quarter comeback and say 'strike that, misleading the jury'.

Sure it's important to have a QB who can bring you back from a 4th quarter deficit. Who said "I don't want a guy like that?". Show me a quote of somebody saying, "I don't want a guy who can bring us back late in games". They might have said, "I'd prefer to have the lead and not face a late deficit" and that really can't misread into some "false dichotomy" either. Like I said, you seem to be a smart guy. Goff has played 21 games and hasn't done it yet, so I guess nobody can say he's the guy. But the opportunity will present itself again and we'll see if he can win a game late.

My god. What's that line from Shawshank Redemption?

the term "4th quarter comeback" means pretty much the same to all football fans, prob is what they're thinking of doesn't square with 4qc stats, yet some choose to pretend they do.

a team could have the ball on the opponent's 1 yard line as the 3rd quarter ends then, when play resumes in the 4th, punch the ball in for a td on the first play of the 4th quarter to take the lead. the same team could then add another 21 unanswered points during the 4th quarter turning the game into a route - result? credit for a 4qc.

a team could rally late in a game, in spectacular fashion, to overcome a 21-point fourth quarter deficit, only to have the defense fold on the opponent's final drive, as it gives up the winning score with no time remaining - result? no credit for 4qc.

a team could suck all game, but on their first and only score of the second half kick a field goal early in the 4th to take a 12-9 lead, which in turn becomes the final score of the game - result? 4qc.

it's a silly stat given how it's defined.

[dieterbrock]

That Mark Sanchez was a beast in the 4th quarter with all his comebacks!

Said no one ever

[PARAM]

the term "4th quarter comeback" means pretty much the same to all football fans, prob is what they're thinking of doesn't square with 4qc stats, yet some choose to pretend they do.

a team could have the ball on the opponent's 1 yard line as the 3rd quarter ends then, when play resumes in the 4th, punch the ball in for a td on the first play of the 4th quarter to take the lead. the same team could then add another 21 unanswered points during the 4th quarter turning the game into a route - result? credit for a 4qc.

a team could rally late in a game, in spectacular fashion, to overcome a 21-point fourth quarter deficit, only to have the defense fold on the opponent's final drive, as it gives up the winning score with no time remaining - result? no credit for 4qc.

a team could suck all game, but on their first and only score of the second half kick a field goal early in the 4th to take a 12-9 lead, which in turn becomes the final score of the game - result? 4qc.

it's a silly stat given how it's defined.

Here's the list on PFR. They provide a link to all the comebacks, listed by year and then a link within that to look at the game situation. What's funny is that game where Addai threw the TD pass 7 seconds into the quarter was the first one I clicked on. There's more but that one just stood out as folly. Much like to what some threads deteriorate. A good discussion on how ready Goff was for a huge game with the division on the line, to 4th quarter comebacks to false dicotomy strawmen.

Synopsis? Goff isn't there yet but he's progressing well. Before the season started, I said he reminded me of Eli with his calm demeanor. And his first year was a lot like Eli's. Terrible numbers with everything moving way too fast for him. Eli went to the playoffs in his second year (11-5) and the Superbowl in year 4 (10-6) sandwiched around an 8-8 season, which included another playoff appearance. I think the Rams are in a better position than those Giants (younger RB, younger defense, much better offense) but Goff still has further to go. It's going to be fun to watch.

[HAL 9000]

That Mark Sanchez was a beast in the 4th quarter with all his comebacks!

Said no one ever

And now that same "clutch" Mark Sanchez is in the, "where are you now files."

[/zn/]

Now that same clutch Mark Sanchez is in the, "where are you now files."

Sanchez had, what, 10 comebacks? That's nothing. He gets brought up as a red herring.

Montana had 31. Marino had 36. Brady has 41. Wilson has 19 in 6 years.

Of course what that means is that they are all bad quarterbacks who could not constantly produce insurmountable
early leads.

[HAL 9000]

Sanchez had, what, 10 comebacks? That's nothing. He gets brought up as a red herring.

Montana had 31. Marino had 36. Brady has 41.

Of course what that means is that they are all bad quarterbacks who could not constantly produce insurmountable
early leads.

He's in his second (really season and a half). He has a long bright career ahead of him and will get plenty of opportunities.

Besides, how many kneel down celebrations does he have in the fourth quarter? Is there a stat for that?

[snackdaddy]

Sanchez had, what, 10 comebacks? That's nothing. He gets brought up as a red herring.

Montana had 31. Marino had 36. Brady has 41. Wilson has 19 in 6 years.

Of course what that means is that they are all bad quarterbacks who could not constantly produce insurmountable
early leads.

It means they're all good quarterbacks on good teams who've been playing for years. This whole thread started with the question of whether or not Goff's capable of winning a big game. But that is a shallow question as there are plenty of variables involved. Goff's numbers were his worst of the season Sunday. Yet they blew the seahags out. He was capable of managing an offense on a day everything else was clicking.

[dieterbrock]

And now that same "clutch" Mark Sanchez is in the, "where are you now files."

I wonder how good he was on 31+ yard throws and since he was a "pro style" QB in college, he checks all the boxes I guess.
Except the whole "being a good QB" thing

[PARAM]

It means they're all good quarterbacks on good teams who've been playing for years. This whole thread started with the question of whether or not Goff's capable of winning a big game. But that is a shallow question as there are plenty of variables involved. Goff's numbers were his worst of the season Sunday. Yet they blew the seahags out. He was capable of managing an offense on a day everything else was clicking.

Absolutely correct. This discussion became derailed when the subject of the QB comeback stat was questioned....or more accurately ridiculed with a tongue in cheek example presented. Nobody is questioning the importance of having a QB capable of bringing a team back late in games. Hell, bringing them back in the 2nd half is great too.

The numbers being questioned aren't real numbers or at least not in the way most level headed fans look at it. That doesn't mean Marino, Brady or P Manning aren't kings of the comeback. They are and any team would love a QB who could perform like that right? But the numbers are skewed. When I look at Brady and it says he's got 41 4th quarter comebacks, 52 game winning drives, that jumps out at me. That's like 2-3 a year.

Then you take a closer look and see this one where the Patriots scored with almost 14 minutes left in the 4th to win. Or this one when they kicked a FG to up with 10:34 left and then scored later to make it a 9 point win. Or this one when they scored with 14:55 left to make it 28-21, another 3 minutes later to make it 35-21 and won the game 52-28. I'd hardly classify those as what we expect to see in a come from behind 4th quarter comeback, down midway to late in the 4th, pressure situation, game on the line. That's 3 in the 16 I checked. Of course they meet the criteria for one or the other (4QC/GWD) because they occurred in the 4th quarter but let's get real. It enhancing a legend that doesn't really need enhancing. And in other cases it creates the misconception quarterback A was better in pressure situations than QB B.

It's a stat that needs refining just like the catch/ground rule or the fumble out of the end zone rule. But that's another subject.

Goff will be fine. It's clear he handles pressure situations good for a youngster and he should only get better. Max knows that and he simply said, "he's not there yet". I think he will be there very soon, maybe even this season. A chance may arise and we'll see. We will be playing with a lot on the line the next few weeks.

[dieterbrock]

It's a stat that needs refining just like the catch/ground rule or the fumble out of the end zone rule. But that's another subject.
.

Its just one of those cute footnote items. Overcoming an 11 point 1st half deficit on the road to me is more impressive than coming back from 1 down in the beginning of the 4th