[snackdaddy]

How bout Goff for the rights to Luck, straight up? Only if Luck plays for us of course.

I think Luck is staying retired forever, however...

I agree. Retiring at that age would seem like he doesn't have that love for the game the great ones have. I would be surprised if he's even considering it.

[snackdaddy]

Rewatching the Packers game. About 11:20 left in the 4th, down 7. Goff hits Van Jeff on a shallow crosser (on 2nd or 3rd down) for a first down. Out of empty set with Akers wide right to the boundary side. Akers is WIDE open in the 9-route for a long TD. Goff had the time to make the throw. Just sad the dink and dunk mentality. And I mean he was wide open. The corner let him run right by and the safety was too flat underneath. All JG had to do was keep looking at VJ for a split second longer, then launch the fade to Akers. Tie game right there. Ugh

You got a guy open for a first down. You pass on him to see if someone else is open further down field. If someone isn't the guy that was open is no longer open. You see a first down you take it. Its not that simple. If its 3rd and ten and you throw a 5 yard pass I can see your point. There's plenty of decision you can point to that were wrong over the season. That was not one of them.

[Haden]

All right, who you want?

There are several interesting things here:

1. Bradford sucks bad.
2. Goff is average
3. Rivers has been damn good and does not get the appreciation he deserves
4. Most importantly, what makes anyone think that if you get rid of Goff that you won’t get a Bradford in return?

[max]

I think Greg Cosell has a fair assessment on Goff. He throws a beautiful ball as long as everything is clean around him. He can't make 2nd reaction plays. So under any level of duress, the best we usually see is a dead play, the worst we see is disaster which is too often.

As Dan Orlovsky pointed out, with a QB like Goff who doesn't produce positive plays, he can't produce negative plays. And this is exacerbated when under duress.

It's easy to see why McVay reached his boiling point with Goff. Way too many negative plays.

And this thing that going on about the OL isn't really a top 3 OL is a huge cop out. Even if the OL is middle of the pack, thats no excuse for Goff's negative plays this year. Goff has the arm talent of some of the great drop back passers like Rivers, Brady, and Brees. But he doesn't have what they have from the neck up. That more than anything is what has McVay not committing to Goff.

Will Goff take that big step up this year? Will he put in the time and effort to make that happen? Will it pay off? And will he get the chance or has McVay determined he's seen enough? These are all open questions, and none of us here know the answers. Thats why this entire thread is sheer conjecture on what the best approach is going forward. None of us is close enough to whats going on to form anything but an opinion, even with a boat load of stats and film evaluations. McVay has everything we or anyone else has to do an evaluation, plus he has a ton more information, plus he knows more about football than anyone here, plus he know more about Goff than anyone here.

I trust the guy who took a 12 year perennial loser and turned them into a winning team in all 4 years he's been HC. Does anyone believe LaFleur would have done a better job than McVay if he was the HC of the Rams this year? Not me. Yet there he is with the #1 seed and one game from the SB.

[PARAM]

You got a guy open for a first down. You pass on him to see if someone else is open further down field. If someone isn't the guy that was open is no longer open. You see a first down you take it. Its not that simple. If its 3rd and ten and you throw a 5 yard pass I can see your point. There's plenty of decision you can point to that were wrong over the season. That was not one of them.

There's also perception involved to some degree. For instance one particular recollection I remember. There was a play where Kupp broke open and Goff threw short to somebody else. The commentators highlighted it when it happened (CC & Michaels) and fans ran with it. It was true Kupp did break open but.....some other truths.....there was pressure, Goff was already throwing to the other player (Higbee?), and the DB on Kupp let him go because the pass was already heading to Higbee. Yet that "mistake" was something many critics ran with and never really acknowledged the flow of the play. It's borderline comical sometimes.

[snackdaddy]

There's also perception involved to some degree. For instance one particular recollection I remember. There was a play where Kupp broke open and Goff threw short to somebody else. The commentators highlighted it when it happened (CC & Michaels) and fans ran with it. It was true Kupp did break open but.....some other truths.....there was pressure, Goff was already throwing to the other player (Higbee?), and the DB on Kupp let him go because the pass was already heading to Higbee. Yet that "mistake" was something many critics ran with and never really acknowledged the flow of the play. It's borderline comical sometimes.

That is where it comes down to line play. If you see a guy open short and pass on him, maybe you get lucky a deeper guy is open. But many times that deeper guy isn't and you either throw it away or you try force it. How many times have we heard people complain about a quarterback who won't take what the defense gives him? Then there is the quarterback who won't even look downfield and consistently throws underneath. Its that fine line that separates the great ones from the pack when you have a guy who makes the right decisions.

[/zn/]

there was pressure, Goff was already throwing to the other player (Higbee?), and the DB on Kupp let him go because the pass was already heading to Higbee. Yet that "mistake" was something many critics ran with and never really acknowledged the flow of the play. It's borderline comical sometimes.

I recall that discussion. There was genuinely no way on that play that Kupp was a real option. But it became another set piece in the story about how the entire season was about Goff, himself alone.

Defense fell short in a couple of games this year. Bills game, Jets game, the 2nd SF game, Green Bay. So as good as it was the D was a bit inconsistent.

Just like the OL could be solid but was inconsistent, and in fact had a few genuinely bad games.

Just like the qb could be solid but was....

...I wonder how long it will take before people start saying, McVay is great but his team can be inconsistent.

[/zn/]

That is where it comes down to line play. If you see a guy open short and pass on him, maybe you get lucky a deeper guy is open. But many times that deeper guy isn't and you either throw it away or you try force it. How many times have we heard people complain about a quarterback who won't take what the defense gives him? Then there is the quarterback who won't even look downfield and consistently throws underneath. Its that fine line that separates the great ones from the pack when you have a guy who makes the right decisions.

Orlovsky chimed in on this in a recent interview, I think it was before the Packers game? Or before the wildcard game? Anyway his point was that Goff tends not to look for his check downs. I took that as meaning that often that's him pressing to make a play when there are other options (check down, bail on the play, take the sack, etc. )

It was just funny to hear Orlovsky say that while everyone else says he never looks long. Orlovsky even texted Goff, and said dude just take your check down. Interestingly one of the best plays in the wildcard game was JG doing exactly that--he is flushed from the pocket, looks downfield, starts to throw downfield, then stops and instead tosses it short to Akers, who then ran 40 yards with it.

I personally don't think it's just about the qb, I think it's the qb in specific circumstances. That is, as I said before, too often Goff was in a position where the pressure was coming and the pass pro was not holding up. Under those conditions it doesn't even matter if there is pressure on this or that given play--if there is a lot of pressure, then every play you have to act like there is going to be pressure and sure don't have the time to sit there and figure it out.

...

[AvengerRam]

Tom Brady: age when he had his first season with a passer rating > 93.0: 30

Jared Goff: 26 years old and, according to many, has already peaked.

Welcome to short attention span theatre.

[ramsman34]

You got a guy open for a first down. You pass on him to see if someone else is open further down field. If someone isn't the guy that was open is no longer open. You see a first down you take it. Its not that simple. If its 3rd and ten and you throw a 5 yard pass I can see your point. There's plenty of decision you can point to that were wrong over the season. That was not one of them.

Pretty sure it was second down and with the route VJ ran, he would have still been open - was running toward the boundary with defender trailing. Goff actually put the ball hind himself but as it was. If it was 3rd down, agree with you. If second, shoulda taken the shot. IMO.

Also, didn’t say it was a mistake per se. I didn’t like yet another example of lack of aggressiveness on a potential game tying, explosive play.