[CanuckRightWinger]

So Elvis....
I did not say Wade got fired because of "accountablity for personnel decisions". Never said that.
I said he got fired for his poor unit's 2019 production on the field!
I also said Kromer's unit production for 2019 was poor too....yet Kromer keeps his job.

The above back&forth was to counter the Keep Kromer For 2020 crowd's argument that:
"Kromer's players were picked for him by Rams Execs, so how can Kromer be fired if they stink?"

My answer: Well Rams Execs picked Wade's players too and they stunk....just like Kromer's guys did. So how come Wade's fired, and Kromer stays?
What's wrongheaded in the above reasoning?

On your other missive:
I have posted David FiestyBadger Edwards praises before BTW.....calling him "Snead's 5th Round Steal".
But Austin Corbett is still an enigma to me for 2020.

[CanuckRightWinger]

Gee, what a compelling argument Dick....NOT!

Question: Wasn't Skip Peete running within McVay's Offense too, like Kromer?
Peete got canned....but not Kromer, even though both of their units 2019 production stunk.

In fact, numerous Ram Coaching Staff were let go after 2019.
Wade, Bones, Fisch, Peete, Daniels....they all had to coach players that Rams Management provided for them.....and they all got canned for bad 2019 production.
Kromer's unit the OLine (and Kromer's Running Game) also had bad 2019 production.....the same Ram Exec-provided personnel to work with like the fired Rams Coaches.....but Kromer is still here.

Is the fog lifting now?

[moklerman]

Should we be saying any of these guys got "fired". Renewing one's contract and getting fired are not the same thing. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a guy to keep the same exact staff that he put together the very first time he assembled a staff. Contracts expired, McVay continues to fine tune what he's looking for. That Kromer made the cut should illustrate the confidence McVay has in him though.

[PARAM]

Hey PA....the same Kromer Defense League argument has been used already on me, you know the one....

it was the total Rams Politburo (including McVay, Snead, Demoff, Pastoors, even Kroenke's personal trainer, Vinny Goombotz ) who pushed Noteboom and Allen onto Kromer.....it was all Salary Cap Business decision stuff.......he just had no choice, that poor Kromer guy!!

That argument falls kinda flat when you can say the same stuff about how Ram defensive personnel decisions were made by others with a higher pay grade than Wade Phillips.....also mindful of tight NFL Salary Cap business considerations ....

yet when the D tubes in some 2019 games, like the OLine tubed in some 2019 games.....Wade doesn't get thrown under the bus by his defensive players either......

but Wade NFLReveredMoreThanKromer! Phillips does get terminated by the Rams at season's end. Fair??


As you know, I wanted Wade gone too.....just seems odd to me that Wade NFLCoachingLegend Phillips get shyte-canned,
yet Aaron ShuffledHereFromBuffalo Kromer gets retained.

Also, since your parsing Whitworth's comments to Colin Cowherd.....um, where does Whit say "and boy, lemme tell ya Colin, we've got a super human being and big time great leader as our OLine Coach in Aaron Kromer!"

Somehow I seemed to have missed that Kromer tribute part from Whit.....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

**For the millenials....Vinny Goombotz was Rodney Dangerfield's doctor.
Rodney: Doctor, I wake up every morning, I look in the mirror....and I feel weak-kneed and nauseous!!! Doc...what's wrong with me???
Dr. Goombotz: I dunno....BUT YOUR EYESIGHT IS PERFECT!!!

Who said "Noteboom and Allen got pushed on Kromer"? I never said that and I can't remember anybody else making that argument. What I did say was it seemed a decision of that magnitude would be a group decision. Who in their right mind would suspect Kromer of telling McVay, Snead and Demoff, "get rid of Saffold and Sullivan, we don't need them, particularly since we can do the same thing with Noteboom and Allen"? My god, Kromer isn't an idiot (in most people's minds). Who in their right mind would want to get rid of an established NFL LG like Saffold? Who do you know (in the Rams organization) who said this wasn't a cap decision? Who told you this was Kromer not wanting Saffold and Sullivan? If you know somebody, then I apologize for opposing your argument.

I have no problem with you being unhappy with the performance of the O line. If you want to blame Kromer have at it...and you have but I don't take that viewpoint. Is he the OL coach? Yes. Did the OL perform well? No. So the connection is obvious and since you want to use half the coaching staff's heads at Vancouver Bowl O Drome, why not McVay? The offense was anemic this year and who's in charge of that? See the connections are easy to make but the reasons for failure are not. I know you well and that's how you roll.

'This unit played like crappola. Time to cut a few of those wastes-of-good-cap-space and the coach who put them out there'. It doesn't always work that way.

Wade? Wade had Donald, Brockers, Fowler, Jr, Matthews, Talib, Peters and then Ramsey....all first round picks. He had Weddle and Rapp, both 2nd round picks. By my count that's a total of 9 guys taken in the first two rounds and they shat the bed in numerous games in a big way. As you so astutely pointed out....44 points to the Cowboys, 45 points to the Ravens, 55 point to the freaking Bucs, so I'm okay with Wade being let go. Even if he didn't have an ounce of input on defensive personnel decisions but we rightly suspect he certainly did. Probably more than Kromer, what with Wade being the DC and even more important, the guy McVay brought in so he could concentrate on working with the offense.

Just because Wade's contract was not renewed doesn't mean they should fire Kromer too. Apparently McVay and Snead seem to feel that way. But that probably makes McVay an idiot in your eyes. Another reason (other that the offensive production) I'd expect you to call for his head too. But you won't because you are 100% sure that's ridiculous.

In your original post you said this:

Rams LT Andrew Whitworth was on Colin Cowherd Show on January 22 and agreed with Cowherd assessment that the Rams struggles of 2019 were because they lost the services of two outstanding Interior Linemen, Rodger Saffold and John Sullivan.

Whitworth went on to point out how great Saffold has shown in the NFL Playoffs for the Titans and said he "texts Titans OT Taylor Lewan regularly about how mad he is at him for having Saffold".

Withworth also said that whilst Noteboom and Allen might equal the production of Saffold and Sullivan "eventually in their careers".....BUT...
"it was unreasonable to expect them to perform at such a high level immediately."

ME: Extrapolating a tad, clearly Andrew Whitworth is joining me in urging the termination of Aaron Kromer as Rams OLine Coach for 2020, eh!!

Seriously, Whit identified the loss of Saffold and Sullivan as the boiled down root cause of Rams struggles in 2019. Hard for Kromer backers to argue that Whit doesn't know what he is talking about, eh

"Kromer backers" would agree with you that Whitworth knows what he's talking about. But you weren't "extrapolating a tad". You were building a magnificent bridge to nowhere. In fact Whitworth didn't say, 'Noteboom and Allen suck' nor did he say 'Kromer sucks as an OL coach' (but some Kromer bashers do). What he basically said was, "Noteboom and Allen" are not yet at the level of Saffold and Sullivan....and added, though they may be someday.

[Elvis]

I said he got fired for his poor unit's 2019 production on the field!

Wade wasn't fired.

He's 72.

According to the Rams (and reporters covering the Rams) McVay wanted to go a different direction philosophically.

I also said Kromer's unit production for 2019 was poor too....yet Kromer keeps his job.

See above. I don't think the situations are comparable at all.

The above back&forth was to counter the Keep Kromer For 2020 crowd's argument that:
"Kromer's players were picked for him by Rams Execs, so how can Kromer be fired if they stink?"

I don't see anyone making that argument. I think most of us would agree it's a collaboration. It would be just as wrong to portray Kromer as a snake oil salesman who tricked the Rams into making certain personnel moves as it would be to say these moves were forced on him without any input on his part.

Though i think it's a lot more reasonable imagine the Rams telling Kromer, "look, based on our other priorities, there's no way we're gonna be able to keep Saffold," than for Kromer to have said to the Rams, "i don't care if he wants to stay and we can afford it, i'm telling you to let him walk."

My answer: Well Rams Execs picked Wade's players too and they stunk....just like Kromer's guys did. So how come Wade's fired, and Kromer stays?
What's wrongheaded in the above reasoning?

See above.

Also, we didn't stink. We were 9-7, just like the Titans. Wade and Kromer's units helped us go 35-17 over the last 3 years...

[CanuckRightWinger]

Alot of verbage there PA.....I know, I should talk, right!?

As I wrote before....I was never gunning for anybody except Wade and Kromer to be gonzo. Not Bones, not Peete.....and certainly not McVay. Who keeps bringing up THAT red herring???

Guys have been full of projections in this thread.
IMO you got this one part right....I wasn't happy with the 2019 Ram OL nor the D.
I wanted both Coaches with those responsibilites removed for 2020.
McVay followed thru on Wade, but Kromer regrettably IMO remains.
That's it.

All the rest of this stuff,
like who amongst Rams Execs & Coaches has how much throwing-weight into deciding which players the Rams sign or release, promote or cut, etc etc....
it's all fooking conjecture! Because we don't know. Period.

Glad my "Fisch getting canned for his innovation/adjustment shortcomings" made you ROLOAO!!

BTW, lemme know when you see a story where Andrew Whitworth sings Aaron Kromer's praises eh!

[R4L]

I'll jump in here and take a stand for my guy Canuck. I was the one that originally mentioned Noteboom and Allen. And I'm sure the Rams came to that collaboration together as PA and several others have pointed out.

But... That's what coaches are for. With McVay being so green as a head coach I'm sure they relied heavily on Kromer's opinion.

So that's why I wouldn't have minded if they moved on from Kromer this off-season. Some on here make it sound like Kromer can turn a guy off the street into a starter and that's just not the case.

I know it's not a popular opinion but it's mine.

[CanuckRightWinger]

Thanks R4L!

Hey...I feel like the Ancient Greek philosopher Diogenes who walked around during daylight hours saying, "I'm looking for an honest man."

[CanuckRightWinger]

I just got home from work, sat on the couch, and turned on the television set. Then my wife asked me "what's on TV?"
I said, "Dust!"
I gotta tell ya, that flying ashtray left quite a mark on my right cheekbone!

Rodney Dangerfield

[PARAM]

I'll jump in here and take a stand for my guy Canuck. I was the one that originally mentioned Noteboom and Allen. And I'm sure the Rams came to that collaboration together as PA and several others have pointed out.

But... That's what coaches are for. With McVay being so green as a head coach I'm sure they relied heavily on Kromer's opinion.

So that's why I wouldn't have minded if they moved on from Kromer this off-season. Some on here make it sound like Kromer can turn a guy off the street into a starter and that's just not the case.

I know it's not a popular opinion but it's mine.

Canuck needs no defending!! He's been debating Los Ramos for almost 2 decades now. I have no problem with the idea, fire a coach if his charges aren't playing up to snuff. But even Whitworth said something about Noteboom and Allen not playing like Saffold and Sullivan and it shouldn't be expected. He's prolly pissed about the business end of it, as every athlete is when changes are made and things go wrong. But that's irrelevant. He didn't praise Kromer? Okay but he wasn't talking about Kromer not coaching well. He basically said, "nobody should have expected Noteboom and Allen to be Saffold and Sullivan" and he knew Kromer, his style, his talent as a coach. In other words, he was dissing the personnel move and he didn't point the finger at Kromer.

As far as McVay being "green" as a head coach, he was entering his third year. I think his green days were behind him and after this year, they are surely in the rear view mirror. He had Snead's input. Obviously he had Wade's and Kromer's too. If McVay thought they absolutely had to keep Saffold, it probably would have been done.

As far as Kromer's talent and resume, I called Canuck out on that because I believed he was embellishing it to a degree. Kromer has enjoyed success everywhere he's been. And then the retort is, "yeah when he inherits great players and things are going good".

I bring up Buffalo and their leading the league 2 years in a row in rushing yards and yards per carry in 2015 and 2016. In 2015 he had a rookie (RG, John Miller, 12 GS) and a second year guy (T, Sentrel Henderson, 10 GS) on that line. Henderson has started exactly 3 games since. Miller has been a starter since and now plays in Cincinnati. So he can coach O lineman.

So what happened to the Rams in 2019? Why couldn't Kromer 'coach em up'? I don't know the answer to that but it could have something to do with injuries (Noteboom in week 6, Allen in week 9, Havenstein in week 10). That's a lot of shuffling. So then the retort becomes, "well SF did it without both their tackles". Sometimes that happens. Most times, it doesn't. What did SF do differently than the Rams? Was it the gameplans? The playcalling? The effectiveness of their 3 running backs? A combination of the 3?

The bottom line is McVay didn't change the OL coaching position so I gotta believe his belief is it wasn't Kromer's fault. Maybe he feels....or maybe he knew.....it would be tough with 2 second year men starting for the first time. Maybe he feels he could have done more in his game planning or play calling? Maybe he believes the injuries hampered both the line play and the play calling? I don't know but to simply say "Kromer's a bum with a terrible resume so we shoulda canned him" without taking into account all those other factors is wrong, despite what SF did without their two tackles.