[/zn/]

yeah, fuckin' goff, really dropped the ball against the saints... my goodness.

It's a real consideration. Pretending someone put the entire blame for the Saints game loss on Goff and then getting in a pile-on sneer doesn't really address the actual issue.

Taken on its own in isolation, considered in its own terms, it is a valid question. How is Goff late in comeback situations? Because even if the defense plays well, in this NFL, circa 2018, the team will end up in close games. Heck the 99 GSOT team ended up in 4 close games (counting the post-season) and they had a top 10 defense.

So it's valid to watch for Goff's maturation and improvement on this. Frankly, in general, he's better than last year.

Right now, here's how he ranks on 2 related stats :

%Pass Comp, Close Games: ranks 7th
%Passes Comp, Late & CIose: ranks 19th

The second stat can improve and I bet will. And as it stands is better than last year.

In terms of coming through late in comeback situations, which remember is something people praise Rodgers for this year, he has done okay in 2018.

Rams win with FG at 6:05, Seattle
Rams with with FG at 2:05, GB
Rams offense can't tie or take the lead back down 38-35, punt at 4:58, New Orleans

You can give him credit for coming back from 21 points down, and that's valid. That was huge, but it still only goes so far, unless you want to start being a big advocate of moral victories.

This year, a 66.7% win rate in comeback situations is pretty good.

Without looking and just from memory, 2017 & 2018 combined so far, he's 50%. Which is still pretty good, though again he's just better this year.

....

[aeneas1]

Yes, he's the real deal. Coming in his pocket presence was considered top tier and he's displayed that. I love the way he moves so subtly as the rush moves all around him. His calmness is apparent. Sure is fun to watch and should be for a long time. He has a good chance to make 3 of his receivers 1,000 yard guys this year. Of course of the three it won't be anything new for Cooks.

a couple of things that jumped out at me when watching the 22...

- everett (and reynolds in weeks past) haven't figured out how to settle in the zone or, better put, aren't in sync with goff when setting up, goff almost always leads receivers away from the defenders in those sitches - cooks, woods and kupp know this, they flow away from the defender when they set up, anticipating that goff will throw accordingly, not everett and reynolds, they're flat footed and lunge for the ball, almost caused a pick against the saints, it will come tho i'm guessing.

- whit didn't have a stellar outing against the saints, one play in particular, a jet to woods, whit got launched 3 yards back at the snap of the ball, right into woods' path, woods tried to run around whit, which caused the play to be smothered.

- the 22 doesn't have a particularly great shot of hekker reaching for the first, but what it does seem to show is that he was late in extending his arm past the marker, he was already on his way out of bounds.

- brees was pressured much more than i had originally thought, but he just made plays, dodged bullets, or got flat-out lucky... on one play fowler (i think) swatted at brees' arm just as brees was delivering the ball, it was so damn close to being a big play, missed by an eyelash... on another play brees was smothered/mugged, looked like a fumble, but it was called an incomplete pass.. on a blitz brees had almost no time to throw, backpedaled desperately, and ended up lofting a td pass... then on another play everyone got near him in a ny sec, only to see him squirt up the middle for a big gainer... frustrating day at the office.

- robert woods. enough said. what a friggin' consistent stud.

[dieterbrock]

So you think he was good on the last 2 possessions in NO?

On the first one, Goff missed an easy throw to Woods on first down that he usually makes in his sleep. Then 2nd down Gurley gets stuffed on a run that looked like the Saints wanted more. Then on 3rd down with plenty of time in the pocket Goff throws a 2 yard pass to Kupp. It was a quick 3 and out that looked so weak.

Then on the next one, Goff is just chucking the ball wildly hoping for a miracle.

Goffs stats on those last 2 possessions were:
6 attempts, 1 completion, 10 yards. for a rating of 39.6.

I am a huge Goff guy. He was my choice a year before the Rams drafted him. But I am honest about what I see right now.

if he was 7/10 in the quarter, how was he 1/6 in those 2 possessions?
The last possession was a joke, they were down 10 and it was highly improbable they were getting the ball twice.
Nitpicking his 4th Q performance is basically only accepting him to have been 10/10.
He had to be nearly perfect to get the game tied and god forbid the defense stopped NO there. Instead, NO made their first stop of the day.

[max]

It's a real consideration. Pretending someone put the entire blame for the Saints game loss on Goff and then getting in a pile-on sneer doesn't really address the actual issue.

Taken on its own in isolation, considered in its own terms, it is a valid question. How is Goff late in comeback situations? Because even if the defense plays well, in this NFL, circa 2018, the team will end up in close games. Heck the 99 GSOT team ended up in 4 close games (counting the post-season) and they had a top 10 defense.

So it's valid to watch for Goff's maturation and improvement on this. Frankly, in general, he's better than last year.

Right now, here's how he ranks on 2 related stats :

%Pass Comp, Close Games: ranks 7th
%Passes Comp, Late & CIose: ranks 19th

The second stat can improve and I bet will. And as it stands is better than last year.

In terms of coming through late in comeback situations, which remember is something people praise Rodgers for this year, he has done okay in 2018.

Rams win with FG at 6:05, Seattle
Rams with with FG at 2:05, GB
Rams offense can't tie or take the lead back down 38-35, punt at 4:58, New Orleans

You can give him credit for coming back from 21 points down, and that's valid. That was huge, but it still only goes so far, unless you want to start being a big advocate of moral victories.

This year, a 66.7% win rate in comeback situations is pretty good.

Without looking and just from memory, 2017 & 2018 combined so far, he's 50%. Which is still pretty good, though again he's just better this year.

....

Well stated.

I looked at his numbers from last year and Goff is better this year, so while he doesn't appear to have that "IT" factor in clutch situations, assuming there is such a thing, he is improving.

I guess its just natural for die hard fans to get overly defensive about their QB when he's putting up great numbers overall. Maybe I'm being too tough on Goff, asking for him to be Joe Montana in the clutch. But all I'm really trying to do is analyze how he is doing right now in clutch situations.

Actually, no one will be happier than me when Goff pulls out a great win late in the game with the winning TD. And even more so in a playoff game. Until that time, I'm in the wait and see mode.

[snackdaddy]

For those who knock Goff's 4th quarter performances I offer this. How many times did Sam Bradford pad his stats during garbage time when they trailed by multiple scores? When all the defense cared about was the clock and played receivers loose? Gave them yards to run clock.

Would you rather a guy who has good 4th quarter numbers in those situations? Or would you rather have a guy who scores a lot the first 3 quarters and have our defense be the one who plays loose to run more clock?

Would I like to see Goff light it up for 4 quarters and score 45 every game? Sure. But jeez, this kid is the real deal. At only 24 years old. Anyone who can't see that either has an agenda or just doesn't understand the game.

Take that second throw to a covered Cooks over the middle. A lot of QB's would lead him more to catch and run. But there was a defender coming to take his head off if he did that. The throw was perfectly placed for a reception and keep the receiver safe. With 4 defenders around him. That is not something you can teach. I would say Goff is top 5 right now and when he finally satisfies his critics by mounting multiple 4th quarter comebacks, he will be the GOAT.

Did anyone say Aaron Rogers was the master comeback kid at 24? Did anyone say Drew Brees was at 24? There were also times they didn't come back. Nobody mentions that. I'm just glad we have a kid who can be good enough for 3 quarters most times where it isn't necessary to be a comeback kid.

[/zn/]

I guess its just natural for die hard fans to get overly defensive about their QB when he's putting up great numbers overall. Maybe I'm being too tough on Goff, asking for him to be Joe Montana in the clutch. But all I'm really trying to do is analyze how he is doing right now in clutch situations.

Yeah well why don't you just move to North Korea if you hate the Rams so much.

Yuck yuck.

You raise a fair issue. And it's just one question among others, so no one said it is THE ONLY question. There can be good conversations that come from reasonable questions like that, and there often are.

Speaking just for myself, I don't have any expectations for what JG can become in terms of the clutch/comeback situation. (And if others have different expectations, that's just interesting.) I do think he has it in him to keep improving. Mostly I just like watching what will happen. My default setting with him is steadfast confidence.

....

[/zn/]

For those who knock Goff's 4th quarter performances I offer this. How many times did Sam Bradford

No one "knocked" anything. No need to be so defensive. He didn't come through at the end Sunday, and that's just fair and realistic description, but that certainly doesn't mean he hasn't before (he has) and won't again (he mostly likely will). It absolutely doesn't mean HE lost the game (and no one said he did).

Going off on other qbs just magnifies the "missing the point" factor.

And I don't know where you get that plural from on "performances." He has been in a comeback situation 3 times this year and they won the game in two of them.

No need to defend Goff. This right here is a big gathering of Goff advocates. He's not being attacked.

....

[max]

I do think he has it in him to keep improving. Mostly I just like watching what will happen. My default setting with him is steadfast confidence.

....

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

I think his even tempered demeanor and his willingness to continue to learn and improve will bode well for him in the months and years to come.

There is no doubt in my mind that the trade up for Goff was a huge hit.

[phoenixrising]

if he was 7/10 in the quarter, how was he 1/6 in those 2 possessions?
Nitpicking his 4th Q performance is basically only accepting him to have been 10/10.

Critiquing a QB based on how he performs at the end of a game is nitpicking? Sometimes I just have to laugh at some of things I read. If you don't agree that a QB should be judged on how he performs with the game on the line, well...we disagree.

I find it curious that the defense is getting universally bashed (with much justification), yet the D gave the ball back twice to the offense with a chance to take the lead -once at 35-35 and again at 38-35. Both times the O failed to score. And yes, Goff left plays on the field. He did not play well. If you want to say that Goff played like an elite QB on those two drives, well...we disagree.

[aeneas1]

And yes, Goff left plays on the field. He did not play well.