[Hacksaw]

Nor can they understand why we are all digging on who they hate and vice versa.

[Rambunctious]

Why do these sport announcers seem to have jobs for life? They are worse than politicians. Maybe we're tired of Joe anyway. New Blood!

[Elvis]

I feel like the headline of this piece should've been: 60k fans show up to Chargers game:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/leighsteinb ... n-loyalty/

Leigh Steinberg

LA NFL Moves Totally Disregard Current Fan Loyalty

The return of the National Football League to Los Angeles is long overdue. The prospect of a franchise or franchises in a market with 15 million people within two hours drive of a stadium on a Sunday afternoon carries obvious excitement. But there are potential victims here whose interests are not being considered–the loyal fans in San Diego, Oakland, and St. Louis. Their loyalty will be betrayed by uprooting any of those franchises. This process exalts new state of the art stadia above consideration for fans.

Who is speaking for the loyal fans of these teams? Who is speaking for the almost 60,000 die-hard Charger fans who showed up Saturday for a meaningless exhibition game? This is a team with a long history of fan support. This is a team which had season ticket shortfalls subsidized by the taxpayers. Who speaks for the rabid Oakland Raiders fan base that has stuck with the team for 50 years even after their walk-a-bout to Los Angeles. St. Louis fans have a shorter tenure, but they are fighting to put a viable stadium plan together. If fans feel their longtime loyalty is discounted, how does that help the long-term future of the NFL?​

NFL franchises are not strictly private businesses. The owners agree to a series of NFL rules and restrictions that would never apply to an independent business. They claim status as civic treasures, as much of the landscape of a city as the Bay Bridge and Golden Gate Bridge in the Bay Area. They bill themselves with monikers like “YOUR San Diego Chargers” and push the concept that the team is owed loyalty and support while they are losing. How does it serve the long term League interests to break the hearts of incumbent fans by allowing teams to desert an area in a search for a state of the art stadium.

Had the NFL stopped the exit of the then St. Louis Cardinals or Baltimore Colts, the franchise merry-go-round that ensued could have been prevented. Or had the League replaced those franchises in 1995 instead of expanding to Carolina and Jacksonville, fans’ interests would have been put first. Instead Baltimore takes the Browns, St. Louis takes the Rams and round and round they go.

If teams and Leagues expect long-term fan loyalty, they cannot abandon cities. I responded to a request by Mayor Frank Jordan in 1992 to help keep the San Francisco Giants from leaving San Francisco for Tampa Bay. We fought a long and ultimately successful fight. I helped Mayor Elihu Harris HRS -1.32% keep the Oakland A’s in Oakland in 1994. I co-led a more frustrating effort “Save The Rams” in 1994 with more than 100 local businessmen. It was the failure of the NFL to block that move, along with the return of the Raiders to Oakland that has led to more than twenty years of no football for the Southern California market.

All of these moves disregarded fan interest. The move to Los Angeles is about increased franchise value and state of the art stadiums. In a time of economic recession, the last thing most municipalities want to do is put public money into stadiums at the expense of schools, roads and vital services. The current stadiums are still viable places to play. This is about revenue streams coming from massive amounts of luxury boxes, premiere seating, jumbo scoreboards,sponsorship and ad locations,and naming rights. I have a vested interest in seeing this revenue expansion for the NFL, but it needs to be balanced with honoring fan loyalty. Of course St. Louis did not follow this principle in taking the Rams from Southern California.

I fell in love with NFL football rooting for the Los Angeles Rams in the Coliseum and would love to see them return.

I rooted for the Raiders since attending law school in the Bay Area, and the Chargers are the closest team to Los Angeles. I want football back but not at the expense of loyal fans. The NFL can step in and mediate stadia solutions in impacted cities. ​The least fan-destructive solution to returning the NFL to Los Angeles is expansion. Expansion has been tossed on the trash heap of problem solving. Why? In an era of unprecedented prosperity for the NFL, carving another share out of the national TV contract won’t have a major impact on teams. The up-front expansion fee enriches the League and mitigates loss of revenue. The NFL has thrived in years with uneven divisions. Except for those of us who are longtime Ram fans, most people in Southern California would be very happy with a new, untarnished expansion team built for the local market. Let’s not dishonor loyal fans who have been part of the reason that the NFL dominates American culture.​

[Stranger]

What's funny here is that the Chargers started in LA (abeit only 1-season), and while the Rams started in Cleveland, they spent 1946-1994 in LA.

[BuiltRamTough]

I have NFL network so I watch other preseason games via replay and there's a big difference between the fans in the Dome and other stadiums. The atmosphere is so much different. Check out the Raiders and Chargers. Both crowds are loud and full of energy. Then you watch the Rams vs Colts and it's dead inside. It's so depressing. I had a hard time watching the game. It's like get the fuck out of town already. I don't know the exact head count but it seemed like watching on TV that there was about 15-20 k. That's awful.

[Stranger]

I've never understood the fan behavior at the Dome. I've always thought it was downbeat.

[Ramfan46]

I call the Ed " The Warehouse". Place is dark and dreary on tv. Whenever they pan to the stands the people look like they don't even want to be there. Maybe STL people aren't a happy and cheery bunch in general, don't know cause I've never been. I do know that is not an inspiring and electric place to call home for the players lately. The place gets routinely taken over by fans of rival clubs and its embarrassing.

Anyone else think it's bad when the most prominent Ram fans you see over and over look like Insane Clown Posse rejects? Ohh and that gem of a video, Ram Rules. That told me everything I needed to know about the local fans in STL. I'll take Ram It all day over that mess.

[BuiltRamTough]

I call the Ed " The Warehouse". Place is dark and dreary on tv. Whenever they pan to the stands the people look like they don't even want to be there. Maybe STL people aren't a happy and cheery bunch in general, don't know cause I've never been. I do know that is not an inspiring and electric place to call home for the players lately. The place gets routinely taken over by fans of rival clubs and its embarrassing.

Anyone else think it's bad when the most prominent Ram fans you see over and over look like Insane Clown Posse rejects? Ohh and that gem of a video, Ram Rules. That told me everything I needed to know about the local fans in STL. I'll take Ram It all day over that mess.

They're so use to watching baseball that they bring that same boring falling asleep mentality to the Dome.

[dieterbrock]

I'm confused...is Joe talking about Stan's reign as Rams owner from 2010 to present or Georgia Frontiere from 1991-1994?

If we had a "Quote of the moment" type thread, this would make a great entry

So true.

All the accusations of Stan seem so much more appropriate for criticism of Georgia when she brought the team to the Lou